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« on: November 15, 2019, 11:04:00 PM »

Hello landlord forum!

I would like your opinions/perspectives from people currently living the landlord experience for better or for worse. Like the landlord himself, I'm a self proclaimed pussy when it comes to investing my hard earned cash. Over the last year or so, I've looked at numerous ways to invest money. I've come to the conclusion that it's either property or the stock market to get any real decent return. I have 60K in life savings just sitting in a shitty savings account. I just want to know, if you guys had this money readily available, what would you do with it? Properties around my area generally sell for about 110K so I haven't got enough to buy a property outright. I have looked at some properties an hour in distance from where I live and you get much more bang for your buck with properties going for 60/70K. Bear in mind I fear debt, that's why I've managed to save so much in the first place. The intention was to buy a property outright. With brexit looming, and the constant hurdles the government seem to be putting in the way of landlords, would you guys wait it out for now? And would you wack all your life savings into one property? Or is that a bad idea? Any guidance appreciated. Thanks for your time 
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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2019, 11:20:05 PM »

I'd purchase two properties for 110k apiece, on 80% mortgages.  So that's 22k down on each property.  You allow 3,300 for stamp duty and you've got some money in hand for renovations and the like.

Which mortgage to get is something to consult a financial adviser about, but for the sake of an example we'll say that you get a five year fixed rate at 4% on a pure interest-only basis.  That's representative of the kind of products you can buy right now.  So you owe 88,000 and your interest payments are 293.33 a month fixed for the next five years.  You'd obviously have to be confident that you could rent the property for enough money to pay this and cover the various costs, charges, insurances and taxes.

In addition to any profit you make on the rent, if the housing market goes up, then each 1% it goes up, you trouser 2,200 as a capital gain.
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2019, 05:06:39 PM »

I'd purchase two properties for 110k apiece, on 80% mortgages.  So that's 22k down on each property.  You allow 3,300 for stamp duty and you've got some money in hand for renovations and the like.

Which mortgage to get is something to consult a financial adviser about, but for the sake of an example we'll say that you get a five year fixed rate at 4% on a pure interest-only basis.  That's representative of the kind of products you can buy right now.  So you owe 88,000 and your interest payments are 293.33 a month fixed for the next five years.  You'd obviously have to be confident that you could rent the property for enough money to pay this and cover the various costs, charges, insurances and taxes.

In addition to any profit you make on the rent, if the housing market goes up, then each 1% it goes up, you trouser 2,200 as a capital gain.

Thanks for your reply. May I just ask two questions. 1. Would you wait to find out what's going on with brexit before you invested in a property? And 2. I know this is a how long is a piece of string kind of question, but in this day and age, how hard is it being a landlord? Under the assumption that you have half decent tenants who actually pay the rent. I only ask because I hear the government are really trying to shut landlord business owners down. Thanks again
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2019, 07:02:07 PM »

Personally I would sit tight.It takes a long time to see any benefits from shares or rentals-I am talking minimum 10 years.Certainly do nothing until the current extraordinary political situation /Brexit is resolved.In areas where property is very cheap,there is often high unemployment,so you may end up with tenants on benefits.This is personally not a risk I ever take.I would consider looking into a long-term savings bond,check out some websites.The bank of India and Shawbrook Bank used to be good,but times change.A friend has a very high-flying daughter in corporate law. She came back from a recent Anglo/American conference,told her Dad to sell his shares,saying the Big Short was on the horizon. You have worked hard to save this money,be careful.If there ever was a gravy train for landlords to jump on,I think that train has left the station.I think it will get worse.I am glad I got in when I did,20 years ago,but I would not do it now.Sorry to sound like an old misery!
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2019, 08:59:05 PM »

Buy to let is a risk.  The benefit of doing it now is that you can fix the interest rate relatively low (in historical terms) for a long time in the future, but the downside is exactly as Heavykarma says: an extraordinary political situation with potentially unexpected ramifications.  Don't do it unless your eyes are completely open.

On the assumption that you have half decent tenants who actually pay the rent, landlording is easyish.  It's not completely straightforward because there's a lot of regulation and paperwork, and the consequences of noncompliance are potentially severe, so you need to be methodical, organised, and disciplined.  Some tenants are more needy/work-intensive than others, of course.
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2019, 01:30:01 PM »

I would also hang-fire for the time-being.

I don't think the biggest unknown is Brexit. I think the biggest unknown is which party is in power. If it's Conservative again I'm certainly not saying they're a friend of the Landlord or PRS in general - look at what they've brought in! That SDLT-kicker is a real kicker... in the gonads! And the proposed and supposed changes to Section 21 (it disappearing) aren't anything but Conservative policy. But... if Labour get in then they are self-professed, not scared to admit it, fervent enemies of the Landlord... better watch out - there's probably changes about... and probably none of them are good. That's not just me being overly-suspicious - we've seen it, we're living it. It's harder now than it has been before... but I doubt it's the end (I know it isn't).
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2019, 09:35:29 PM »

Personally I would sit tight.It takes a long time to see any benefits from shares or rentals-I am talking minimum 10 years.Certainly do nothing until the current extraordinary political situation /Brexit is resolved.In areas where property is very cheap,there is often high unemployment,so you may end up with tenants on benefits.This is personally not a risk I ever take.I would consider looking into a long-term savings bond,check out some websites.The bank of India and Shawbrook Bank used to be good,but times change.A friend has a very high-flying daughter in corporate law. She came back from a recent Anglo/American conference,told her Dad to sell his shares,saying the Big Short was on the horizon. You have worked hard to save this money,be careful.If there ever was a gravy train for landlords to jump on,I think that train has left the station.I think it will get worse.I am glad I got in when I did,20 years ago,but I would not do it now.Sorry to sound like an old misery!

Thanks for your time and reply. And I would much rather you be an honest misery than a lying optimist! I understand what you mean. I guess I didn't think about the employment in regards to the houses being cheaper in other areas, that makes a lot of sense. May I ask, your friend with the daughter, this big short... is this due within the next say 5 years? It would be great if we could capitalise off of the dip! Yeah I think after these replies, I will be waiting it out for now. It's so frustrating cause as you say, I've worked so hard to build up my life savings and I'm getting next to nothing for what I would deem a significant sum of money considering I'm not exactly in a high end paying job. Would just be nice to get a little something back, a reward for my efforts. Thanks
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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2019, 09:41:35 PM »

Sure. But you'd be ever sadder about it all if you'd chucked all your money at a house and your Tenant wasn't paying and they'd also broken stuff you were obliged to fix for them... and you had to go through the long, expensive Court process to get them out. So, don't be too sad. I suppose we have all presumed you're mortgage free yourself... just in case that's not true... dump it there. I always said - sort your own home out first, then play.

And, if you feel like taking a risk... heck, do it... if your own home is safe, that's what it is... playing. Nothing can hurt you, really. You might enjoy it, even. I know I do always, well, often... sometimes... er, OK - I'll think about this.
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2019, 09:47:26 PM »

Buy to let is a risk.  The benefit of doing it now is that you can fix the interest rate relatively low (in historical terms) for a long time in the future, but the downside is exactly as Heavykarma says: an extraordinary political situation with potentially unexpected ramifications.  Don't do it unless your eyes are completely open.

On the assumption that you have half decent tenants who actually pay the rent, landlording is easyish.  It's not completely straightforward because there's a lot of regulation and paperwork, and the consequences of noncompliance are potentially severe, so you need to be methodical, organised, and disciplined.  Some tenants are more needy/work-intensive than others, of course.

Thanks again for your time. Yeah, I've noticed the base rate is particularly low. I also work for a bank so I can get a staff rate mortgage which is pretty impressive l, but it may get revoked in April next year. That's part of the reason why I've been considering property a lot more lately before I lose the opportunity, but I would rather lose out than make a mistake and waste money I've worked so hard to build.

Yeah, it seems like there's a lot of red tape when it comes to being a landlord. And it seems like no government party is looking to make it any easier. I like to think I'm organised, but with me working full time and a young daughter on my hands I wonder if I may be biting off more than I can chew with adding being a landlord into the mix. Or maybe I'm just being a pussy and being scared to take the risk and go for it. Thanks
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2019, 09:53:35 PM »

Sure. But you'd be ever sadder about it all if you'd chucked all your money at a house and your Tenant wasn't paying and they'd also broken stuff you were obliged to fix for them... and you had to go through the long, expensive Court process to get them out. So, don't be too sad. I suppose we have all presumed you're mortgage free yourself... just in case that's not true... dump it there. I always said - sort your own home out first, then play.

And, if you feel like taking a risk... heck, do it... if your own home is safe, that's what it is... playing. Nothing can hurt you, really. You might enjoy it, even. I know I do always, well, often... sometimes... er, OK - I'll think about this.

Thanks for your time and reply. Yeah exactly, this is the thing that scares me. I guess any investment you make has risk, I'm just annoyed that my savings is sitting around doing nothing. I don't have a house currently, no. I'll quickly explain why. Me and my Mrs had my daughter 8 months ago, and rocked out relationship to the core. We almost broke up. So, I said I want to rent with her before we get a mortgage incase it don't work out. It also scares me shitless getting a property with her as I've learnt with the law I can be kicked out of the property until my daughters 18 and still have to pay the mortgage and still get a place for myself afterwards... terrifying! I just don't know what do! Thanks
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2019, 10:38:05 PM »

Buy a place for your family. Hopefully you and your family... but if it turns out not, not... at least your daughter will have a home. Think bigger Mr. Big. Your daughter will be proud of you when she's older...
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« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2019, 10:01:35 AM »

I agree with Hippogriff,your priority should be to get your own house first.It is not just the financial aspect of being a landlord that you have to consider.I am very risk averse when it comes to money.20 years ago this month,my system awash with chemically-induced boldness courtesy of Prozac (for anxiety and depression) I sauntered into the estate agents,viewed a flat and off I went.Five more properties followed within 2 years.The irony is that being a landlord has caused me some of the worst worry and misery I have ever had.You really don't need that on top of a fragile domestic situation.I do hope things work out for you.Maybe spend a wee bit of that savings on a nice treat for your partner and daughter?
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« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2019, 10:39:49 AM »

...as I've learnt with the law I can be kicked out of the property until my daughters 18 and still have to pay the mortgage and still get a place for myself afterwards... terrifying!

You can always make more money.

Or maybe I'm just being a pussy and being scared to take the risk and go for it. Thanks

It's not that, now, we've learned more. You're considering the wrong decision completely. You have all of these savings... you feel they're burning a hole in your pocket, in a sense, and you're piqued that returns aren't what you wanted them to be. You're thinking of property as an investment. But you're renting yourself now. So you're busy paying off someone else's mortgage, for them, and they're benefiting from the income and capital appreciation you're missing out on.

But if you bought your own home... then you would remove your rent outgoing, you would provide security for your family (your partner is an unknown, but your daughter is just your daughter at the end of the day... not yet a formed person in their own right, just someone who needs looking after, protection and security) so how are you even contemplating a property investment?

I mean, sure - go do a property investment, but in your own family home and with a large pot of savings you can even get a better home than you envisaged or make it so the mortgage (large deposit, low interest rate, maybe a longer-term fixed rate) is so tiny the payments are effectively meaningless... then you're paying yourself (you really are) and you're benefiting from any capital appreciation. All the positives of home owning, which are often intangible, will then come to pass and with a small mortgage payment vs. a large rental payment I can almost guarantee a less stressful life overall.

I have Tenants paying me 875 rent and 850 rent for properties that are... meh... (I mean they're nice, but just 3 bedroom and 4 bedroom new builds)... I'd not want to live there myself, and I can't figure out how the market commands those rates... I welcome my Tenants with open arms and I respect them greatly, it doesn't mean my eyebrows aren't raised when I ponder - "why are you renting at these rates when no mortgage would cost that much?" - there's all sorts of circumstances, of course.

I am convinced you are looking at this dilemma almost backwards.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 10:54:34 AM by Hippogriff »
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« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2019, 01:31:58 PM »

I think you need to back up a lot first ..... before asking about the best investment, one assumes a person can truly afford and are ready to do so, now this sounds patronising and I can only apologise but here is the thing. There are so many questions to consider that I don't feel you have adequately covered. If I'm wrong, again my apologies ... You are in a fragile relationship, your daughter is completely dependent on you/her mum for at least the next 20 years (that's a kind of mortgage in itself no?), you have no permanent home, you are scared to buy one (due to fragile relationship status), your savings are your life savings - what happens if you lose your job, have a life changing accident, your car breaks down etc..... Do you have adequate life insurance/assurance, a Will etc.... Imagine if you lost that 60K what would happen?

My personal opinion is that the return for being a landlord is decreasing too fast whilst the pitfalls have increased too much to go into property investment in the same way as say 10 years ago. It is not for the faint hearted. All I can say for sure is that if I had 60K spare, I would not look to invest in properties, I would put it in a Junior ISA, ISA, LISA et al :-) And continue to save, review and repeat. I'm dull, I fully admit it.
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2019, 12:45:48 AM »

I agree with Hippogriff,your priority should be to get your own house first.It is not just the financial aspect of being a landlord that you have to consider.I am very risk averse when it comes to money.20 years ago this month,my system awash with chemically-induced boldness courtesy of Prozac (for anxiety and depression) I sauntered into the estate agents,viewed a flat and off I went.Five more properties followed within 2 years.The irony is that being a landlord has caused me some of the worst worry and misery I have ever had.You really don't need that on top of a fragile domestic situation.I do hope things work out for you.Maybe spend a wee bit of that savings on a nice treat for your partner and daughter?

Yeah I understand. I've contemplated being a landlord for the last two years roughly. So I really am trying to get a full idea of the pros and cons and get as much knowledge/experience/advice as possible before even thinking of making a decision. I will respond to hippogriff shortly and explain a bit further the situation of getting a house. I actually got my partner a car two months ago as she was getting frustrated stuck in the car with the little one. Just need to get my daughter something now I guess! Thanks for your input. I hear people talk about pension payments which is something I'm now also considering.
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« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2019, 12:58:48 AM »

...as I've learnt with the law I can be kicked out of the property until my daughters 18 and still have to pay the mortgage and still get a place for myself afterwards... terrifying!

You can always make more money.

Or maybe I'm just being a pussy and being scared to take the risk and go for it. Thanks

It's not that, now, we've learned more. You're considering the wrong decision completely. You have all of these savings... you feel they're burning a hole in your pocket, in a sense, and you're piqued that returns aren't what you wanted them to be. You're thinking of property as an investment. But you're renting yourself now. So you're busy paying off someone else's mortgage, for them, and they're benefiting from the income and capital appreciation you're missing out on.

But if you bought your own home... then you would remove your rent outgoing, you would provide security for your family (your partner is an unknown, but your daughter is just your daughter at the end of the day... not yet a formed person in their own right, just someone who needs looking after, protection and security) so how are you even contemplating a property investment?

I mean, sure - go do a property investment, but in your own family home and with a large pot of savings you can even get a better home than you envisaged or make it so the mortgage (large deposit, low interest rate, maybe a longer-term fixed rate) is so tiny the payments are effectively meaningless... then you're paying yourself (you really are) and you're benefiting from any capital appreciation. All the positives of home owning, which are often intangible, will then come to pass and with a small mortgage payment vs. a large rental payment I can almost guarantee a less stressful life overall.

I have Tenants paying me 875 rent and 850 rent for properties that are... meh... (I mean they're nice, but just 3 bedroom and 4 bedroom new builds)... I'd not want to live there myself, and I can't figure out how the market commands those rates... I welcome my Tenants with open arms and I respect them greatly, it doesn't mean my eyebrows aren't raised when I ponder - "why are you renting at these rates when no mortgage would cost that much?" - there's all sorts of circumstances, of course.

I am convinced you are looking at this dilemma almost backwards.

I understand what you're saying, I really do. And I know it does sound crazy in the eyes/ears of some. Thing is, I've had different responses about this depending on who I've spoken to. I had a thread up on money saving expert forum and they treated me like I was the devil himself. Then I went on wikivorce forum who said they wish they were as wise and cautious as me when they were in my position. Part of the reason why I contemplated being a landlord is 1. The rental income could cover my own rent leaving me with more disposable income from my salary to spend on my daughter, and 2. I could give my daughter the property when she's older. I've got no issue looking after my daughter, but the idea of buying a property that could essentially be taken off me with money I've saved all my life to build just seems out of order. I've read some horror stories which has really skewed my view on mortgage and marriage. I did say to my partner if we last the 6 month tenancy agreement then I'll do a mortgage with her, my intention was to just go half with her and keep my savings for some other investment. If you think that would be the most beneficial plan I will consider it though as I'm open to suggestions, I do t want to be blinded by my own ignorance. Would you recommend pension saving at all? Thanks for your input, excuse the long reply.
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« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2019, 01:00:09 AM »

I started work in 1998, and a company pension at the same time. My company adds quite a lot each month, I add some money... but it's still a crappy defined contributions scheme.

I look at my annual statements... and if I knew then what I know now, I would have put my money towards a little terrace house and sacked-off the pension completely. As late as last year I contemplated putting it into hibernation... ceasing my contributions, but also those of the company. What deterred me? All the stuff we have been saying about property getting harder.

My state pension shows I am at maximum benefit already. I cannot get any more from the NI I've paid. It's maxed. So I continue to work, but for no extra benefit. It won't go up over the next 20 years (more than it normally would). That stings a little. I am not well-disposed towards pensions. All that said - I pay the maximum regular overpayment I can pay for my company one - for me that's an extra 2%. I guess I feel too caught up in The Machine.

Get your own little piece of home sorted. There's no romance in being a Landlord. It doesn't make you superior. What frees you is not being beholden to a Landlord (sure, a Bank might be just a different master, but they don't often operate on whims - if you get that mortgage and pay it, they'll leave you be). I am still a little amazed that someone with means would choose to rent, but maybe more to come...
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« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2019, 01:06:33 AM »

I think you need to back up a lot first ..... before asking about the best investment, one assumes a person can truly afford and are ready to do so, now this sounds patronising and I can only apologise but here is the thing. There are so many questions to consider that I don't feel you have adequately covered. If I'm wrong, again my apologies ... You are in a fragile relationship, your daughter is completely dependent on you/her mum for at least the next 20 years (that's a kind of mortgage in itself no?), you have no permanent home, you are scared to buy one (due to fragile relationship status), your savings are your life savings - what happens if you lose your job, have a life changing accident, your car breaks down etc..... Do you have adequate life insurance/assurance, a Will etc.... Imagine if you lost that 60K what would happen?

My personal opinion is that the return for being a landlord is decreasing too fast whilst the pitfalls have increased too much to go into property investment in the same way as say 10 years ago. It is not for the faint hearted. All I can say for sure is that if I had 60K spare, I would not look to invest in properties, I would put it in a Junior ISA, ISA, LISA et al :-) And continue to save, review and repeat. I'm dull, I fully admit it.

Hey, thanks for your response. Well, I have a will done and life insurance so I'm covered in those aspects. Can I afford to lose 60K? Yes and no. I'm currently working so technically I'd be ok but mentally it would mess me up. Mainly because I know the sacrifices I've made to to earn that money. Maybe throwing the whole savings may not have been wise so that is a good point. I guess I could always keep a few K in savings incase a rainy day should come. Yeah, the more I've spoken with you guys, the more I'm starting to feel like the landlord route isn't as fruitful as I hope and with all the potential stress that could come with it, I question if it's really worthwhile. Nothing wrong with being dull if it actually brings some kind of return! And that's all I'm after. Thanks again.
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« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2019, 01:10:31 AM »

No-one is wanting to accuse you of not wanting to care / provide for your family, I'm sure of that. I think I'm surprised you have the means to make your current life simpler and easier but you are / seem frozen into inaction through fear of things going wrong. I'd suppose everyone has a bit of that in them... but you now seem to be looking for any and all avenues to explore that would enable you to, somehow, keep your stash... rather than donate it and risk it. If you can be open with your partner, about your fears, could you draft something with a Solicitor for a couple of hundred quid that may not overturn the law of the land, but might give someone second thought about what they're doing if your worst case scenario arose? I have heard of people breaking up and dividing up the assets, including the proceeds of house sales after existing mortgage debt has been paid off... why would your reality be different? I wonder...
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« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2019, 01:15:28 AM »

Everyone should have a small separate stash... women, men. But the rest goes into the shared pot and come what may...
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« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2019, 01:24:47 AM »

I started work in 1998, and a company pension at the same time. My company adds quite a lot each month, I add some money... but it's still a crappy defined contributions scheme.

I look at my annual statements... and if I knew then what I know now, I would have put my money towards a little terrace house and sacked-off the pension completely. As late as last year I contemplated putting it into hibernation... ceasing my contributions, but also those of the company. What deterred me? All the stuff we have been saying about property getting harder.

My state pension shows I am at maximum benefit already. I cannot get any more from the NI I've paid. It's maxed. So I continue to work, but for no extra benefit. It won't go up over the next 20 years (more than it normally would). That stings a little. I am not well-disposed towards pensions. All that said - I pay the maximum regular overpayment I can pay for my company one - for me that's an extra 2%. I guess I feel too caught up in The Machine.

Get your own little piece of home sorted. There's no romance in being a Landlord. It doesn't make you superior. What frees you is not being beholden to a Landlord (sure, a Bank might be just a different master, but they don't often operate on whims - if you get that mortgage and pay it, they'll leave you be). I am still a little amazed that someone with means would choose to rent, but maybe more to come...

I see. Yeah overall getting a property for myself and family would be the most beneficial. Low monthly payments due to high deposit, not paying tax as it's my residential home. No concern of lousy tenants. Property will be taken care of and hopefully some capital appreciation if brexit doesn't mess everything up. Just gotta hope my Mrs don't take me to court and force me out if things go sour!  :-\ lol well, I can only put it down to two things... fear of debt and fear of my partner screwing me over. I've never had debt in my life, not a credit card, loan, overdraft, nothing. I truly fear debt. My hope was to try and save enough to buy a house outright. Not quite there but I like think I've done well all things considered. I just worry of having 10+ years worth of debt lingering over me. I was made redundant a year ago, i was so stressed out. And if me and my partner broke up and I had to leave the property, I'm not sure if I could cover that mortgage and also pay for a place of my own as well as paying child maintenance. I would be financially crippled. If you haven't yet noticed, I'm a bit of a pessimist lol. Thanks for your continued advice
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« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2019, 01:33:11 AM »

No-one is wanting to accuse you of not wanting to care / provide for your family, I'm sure of that. I think I'm surprised you have the means to make your current life simpler and easier but you are / seem frozen into inaction through fear of things going wrong. I'd suppose everyone has a bit of that in them... but you now seem to be looking for any and all avenues to explore that would enable you to, somehow, keep your stash... rather than donate it and risk it. If you can be open with your partner, about your fears, could you draft something with a Solicitor for a couple of hundred quid that may not overturn the law of the land, but might give someone second thought about what they're doing if your worst case scenario arose? I have heard of people breaking up and dividing up the assets, including the proceeds of house sales after existing mortgage debt has been paid off... why would your reality be different? I wonder...

Yeah I understand, it is a bit weird. I am kinda paranoid, I do have trust issues etc. So my mind does go wild sometimes. I hope me speaking on my daughter didn't come across as rudely defensive, as that wasn't my intention. Apologies if it did. I have been looking at stuff like that, cohabitation agreements and another thing, can't remember the name. You specify who paid what so when you sell, you get back what you put in and share out the profit accordingly. Thing is, the other person can stall selling the house to try keep it for longer. I'm going down a big rabbit hole here so won't divulge too much, but I'm sure you can see my mind goes into overdrive with this kind of stuff. It's almost like this money is a blessing and a curse lol. I think I just need to bite the bullet, though. I mean who knows, we could live happily ever after...
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« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2019, 10:23:39 AM »

This is what is called catastrophising.I know because I have a black belt in the art.I don't know how long you and your other  half have been together,but you don't mention her opinions and feelings when it comes to the financial plans.Even if the pregnancy came as a shock,leaving you feeling trapped,the fact is both of you now have a daughter and she is one thing that clearly you both have a commitment to.If you really want a future together,you have to start thinking of all 3 of you as a little family.You can't impose conditions (6 months trial) Life ain't like that,relationships are not that disposable.It might all go tits up for you both,but as you say you could be partners for life.Either way,it makes all kinds of sense to put your money into a home of your own.I bought my house 26 years ago,and it's now worth around 4.5 times as much.That's not bad for something that I also love very much.Try to build a bit of trust and security into the equation,baby steps.Please please drop the idea of being a landlord for now,don't end up all bitter and twisted like me!   
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« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2019, 10:27:37 AM »

I truly fear debt.

This is it, in a nutshell.

Try to take a deep breath and remember you are alive in 2019, not 1919. The world has changed but you've come from a different century. Credit is a thing now. And thankfully too. I am also fearful of debt. I really am. I am cautious. I am risk averse. However, an old colleague / mentor (who used to be great at offering me gnomic aphorisms when we were going to visit clients on the train) once explained to me the simple difference between bad debt and good debt.

You can be assured that mortgage debt is good debt.

Overdraft is bad debt... if you're deep in your overdraft then you're in trouble, right? Credit Card debt isn't good debt, that's for sure, but sometimes you need a little balance on your Credit Card to allow your credit history to build up correctly - perverse, I know. If you're frightened of debt then don't be frightened of mortgage debt... and if you are truly frightened of it then take it to town - get that mortgage and find a product (YBS are good) where you can do unlimited overpayments - many offer a facility of only 10% of the outstanding balance per year... I have some of these with NatWest and I take advantage of that every single year... it makes me feel good about my debt as it slowly diminishes. But I do not fret about the concept of this debt.. because I've rationalised it as being good debt.

Good debt does not linger over you. It is not a Sword of Damocles. It is merely a marker of you making progress in Life. Again, this is 2019, not 1919... mortgages are a thing. I've been a cash buyer of houses in the past... it's refreshing, powerful and liberating... however, I've also got 4 mortgages (my wife is joint on 2 of those)... we just accept. Maybe it's time? I suggest that pumping your savings into bricks and mortar will, in real terms, result in that money appreciating faster than in your savings account... plus you get all the other benefits we've referred to.

The savings you have accumulated are a blessing - not a curse. It says something about the state of your mind that you even contemplate your savings as a curse. I think it's time to jump in... as you say, you could live happily ever after.. but even if you end up splitting with your partner and things turn horrible and it's simply awful - then your daughter won't become your enemy, and she will always know that you, her father, did the Right Thing.

Risks? Sure.
Real reasonable rational risks? Mebbe... who knows? You can't predict the future - you can only try to shape it.

Good luck.
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« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2019, 10:29:29 AM »

This is what is called catastrophising.I know because I have a black belt in the art.I don't know how long you and your other  half have been together,but you don't mention her opinions and feelings when it comes to the financial plans.Even if the pregnancy came as a shock,leaving you feeling trapped,the fact is both of you now have a daughter and she is one thing that clearly you both have a commitment to.If you really want a future together,you have to start thinking of all 3 of you as a little family.You can't impose conditions (6 months trial) Life ain't like that,relationships are not that disposable.It might all go tits up for you both,but as you say you could be partners for life.Either way,it makes all kinds of sense to put your money into a home of your own.I bought my house 26 years ago,and it's now worth around 4.5 times as much.That's not bad for something that I also love very much.Try to build a bit of trust and security into the equation,baby steps.Please please drop the idea of being a landlord for now,don't end up all bitter and twisted like me!

If there was a Like button on this forum, I would press it for this. I don't think of you as twitter and bisted heavykarma.
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« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2019, 03:25:30 PM »

Aw shucks,thank you,made my day.
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« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2019, 09:47:44 PM »

This is what is called catastrophising.I know because I have a black belt in the art.I don't know how long you and your other  half have been together,but you don't mention her opinions and feelings when it comes to the financial plans.Even if the pregnancy came as a shock,leaving you feeling trapped,the fact is both of you now have a daughter and she is one thing that clearly you both have a commitment to.If you really want a future together,you have to start thinking of all 3 of you as a little family.You can't impose conditions (6 months trial) Life ain't like that,relationships are not that disposable.It might all go tits up for you both,but as you say you could be partners for life.Either way,it makes all kinds of sense to put your money into a home of your own.I bought my house 26 years ago,and it's now worth around 4.5 times as much.That's not bad for something that I also love very much.Try to build a bit of trust and security into the equation,baby steps.Please please drop the idea of being a landlord for now,don't end up all bitter and twisted like me!   

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I'm quite aware that I'm paranoid and cynical and that's something I need to work on. You and hippogriff are right in the sense I'm shooting myself in the foot renting when I could wack my savings into a big deposit and have a dirt cheap mortgage. I guess that shows how cautious I truly am. Thanks for your advice, much appreciated.
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« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2019, 09:51:57 PM »

I truly fear debt.

This is it, in a nutshell.

Try to take a deep breath and remember you are alive in 2019, not 1919. The world has changed but you've come from a different century. Credit is a thing now. And thankfully too. I am also fearful of debt. I really am. I am cautious. I am risk averse. However, an old colleague / mentor (who used to be great at offering me gnomic aphorisms when we were going to visit clients on the train) once explained to me the simple difference between bad debt and good debt.

You can be assured that mortgage debt is good debt.

Overdraft is bad debt... if you're deep in your overdraft then you're in trouble, right? Credit Card debt isn't good debt, that's for sure, but sometimes you need a little balance on your Credit Card to allow your credit history to build up correctly - perverse, I know. If you're frightened of debt then don't be frightened of mortgage debt... and if you are truly frightened of it then take it to town - get that mortgage and find a product (YBS are good) where you can do unlimited overpayments - many offer a facility of only 10% of the outstanding balance per year... I have some of these with NatWest and I take advantage of that every single year... it makes me feel good about my debt as it slowly diminishes. But I do not fret about the concept of this debt.. because I've rationalised it as being good debt.

Good debt does not linger over you. It is not a Sword of Damocles. It is merely a marker of you making progress in Life. Again, this is 2019, not 1919... mortgages are a thing. I've been a cash buyer of houses in the past... it's refreshing, powerful and liberating... however, I've also got 4 mortgages (my wife is joint on 2 of those)... we just accept. Maybe it's time? I suggest that pumping your savings into bricks and mortar will, in real terms, result in that money appreciating faster than in your savings account... plus you get all the other benefits we've referred to.

The savings you have accumulated are a blessing - not a curse. It says something about the state of your mind that you even contemplate your savings as a curse. I think it's time to jump in... as you say, you could live happily ever after.. but even if you end up splitting with your partner and things turn horrible and it's simply awful - then your daughter won't become your enemy, and she will always know that you, her father, did the Right Thing.

Risks? Sure.
Real reasonable rational risks? Mebbe... who knows? You can't predict the future - you can only try to shape it.

Good luck.

You and Heavy Karma have both made great, valid points. I genuinely have taken it onboard. Unfortunately I've gotta stick out my rental agreement now for the 6 months as I'm under contract, but I'm gonna start looking at properties for when it's done. If I wack my savings in, I can get a mortgage of 200 roughly a month! I guess if I keep worrying about what could happen, I won't enjoy what is happening. These 6 months will show me enough to know we can work as well so as wrong as it maybe that I've done it, it's served its purpose and given me some peace of mind. Thanks for your time, much appreciated.
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« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2019, 03:04:11 PM »

These 6 months will show me enough to know we can work as well so as wrong as it maybe that I've done it, it's served its purpose and given me some peace of mind.

'member what I said about shaping your future? Well, if you were to announce this next step with your partner, wouldn't that bring a positivity to the situation that might not, necessarily, exist right now? We hear what you've said will happen... your plan... but does the timer start after the 6 month fixed term... because that's not long at all, really, and one would think you could be spending a bit of time looking at potential houses... giving the impression (not that it's needed) that it's not all talk and not all jam tomorra - making it more concrete, giving it legs. You can still step back if it goes wrong, can't you?
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« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2019, 03:27:01 PM »

These 6 months will show me enough to know we can work as well so as wrong as it maybe that I've done it, it's served its purpose and given me some peace of mind.

'member what I said about shaping your future? Well, if you were to announce this next step with your partner, wouldn't that bring a positivity to the situation that might not, necessarily, exist right now? We hear what you've said will happen... your plan... but does the timer start after the 6 month fixed term... because that's not long at all, really, and one would think you could be spending a bit of time looking at potential houses... giving the impression (not that it's needed) that it's not all talk and not all jam tomorra - making it more concrete, giving it legs. You can still step back if it goes wrong, can't you?

Yeah, well I briefly mentioned it to her today and she seems happy about it. We have been getting along good for the last month so I'm hoping we pretty much back on track. The main reason I did the renting first was because when my daughter was first born, my partner struggled handling the responsibilities of parenthood and house duties when I went back to work. I would do my part when I got in and on weekends but I work late and weekends are short. My partner goes back to work in January so I just wanted to make sure she felt she could handle, work, parenthood and looking after a home. It probably sounds like it's all on her the way I describe it but I honestly do play my part as and when I can. Sorry I didn't  fully understand the last part of your sentence. I'm gonna look for places from now, if we're lucky, we'll find a house we can buy and move in just after the 6 months tenancy agreement is up. If not, I guess we decide to either keep renting till we find somewhere or back to parents temporarily until we find a house we can buy. I think that should give a bit of time to back out if necessary but hopefully that won't be the case. My only wonder now, is do I wait to find out about brexit outcome before putting in offers in hope I could get a nice discount or just ignore the chaos continue looking as normal. Thanks
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