UK Landlord Forum / Life

Dear all

I have a tenant who is two months into their second AST with me.  if I had a time machine I would have allowed the AST, which ended on August 8 th 2014, to elapse into a statutory periodic.  stupidly I didn't due to having both heart surgery and a miscarriage the same bloody month.  hey ho.  So I did protect their first deposit through from August 2013 to 2014.  I have a copy of the email from the deposit people but stupidly gave the tenant only hard copies.  yes, they are not denying they ever got it.  I have my signed copies though.
fast forward to now...tenant signed again, late, so I dated the new AST from September 1st. I was stressed about this as there was now a 23 day gap between deposit protection.  But it was re protected and this time I did email the stuff and again got the tenant to sign all the PI paperwork.  there is a problem though.  Firstkybthey are arguing now that the first deposit wasn't fully protected.  The whole issue of how to prove it is a nightmare as I didn't email ithe PI with the date on the email as proof, just used print ours. Tenant is wished up to the admin systems of deposit protection.

My questions are....while I know I always protected the deposit within thirty days of each AST starting, is the 23 day gap too long and would this count as not fully protecting the deposit in time? I checked the paperwork with My Deposits and they say on it that the tenant was protected up to August 23 rd, which is 15 days after the first AST ended.  But the second ine didn't get protected until September 1 st...have I screwed up here?  Should I just return the whole deposit now? I met the tenant last week , not very pleasant as I really thought I had done enough to protect both deposits and it's clear that they are trying it on.  I have served them a section 21 which means they are due to leave late feb. I have agreed that they can surrender the tenancy early.  In return they have agreed to not report me to the deposits lot, as long as they get their full deposit back.  help!  I have beena diligent landlord and this tenant has given 'demanding' a whole new meaning.  They have run up damages to the property but I would happily return the whole deposit to avoid being sued.  who brings the case...the tenant?  I will be out of pocket by hundreds if I return the deposit in full, but I would dearly live them to leave early. I have emailed them confirming this, and they have agreed to undertake some of the key property repairs I asked for. The last question I have is...if they receive their deposit back In full before they  check out, would the tenant have a leg to stand on if they sue me for not protecting the deposit? the thing is I do have the certificates, but there is this gap between tenancies when it lapses to a periodic because the tenant was such an awkward sod they were hard to teach to redo the new AST with.  I did serve the Prescribed Info, but in the end it's their word against mine as I didn't email it.
I also don't like being  bullied by this tenant and part of me thinks sod it...wait for the section 21 to run out in the spring and get repossession.  what would readers advise as the most cost effective and easy way out of my turdtastic nightmare?  if landlords in this mess do give back entire deposits to avoid  eating sues for higher amounts, could I claim back my lost money  from other damage through small claims, or will the accusation of not fully protected deposits haunt me DESPITE a full deposit refund? it seems unfair to me.

Think about the situation where deposits might physically move between protection scheme, Landlord and / or Tenant between periods of a tenancy - it can happen. In that case, you'd not expect the Tenant to put up another whole deposit (cashflow) might be an issue, so you'd fully expect there to be some delays. For example, I had a 12 month fixed term tenancy at £X rent, at the end of that the Tenant did not want to move to a SPT, but wanted another 12 month fixed term... but the new rent was going to be £X + £20... so the deposit amount changed. I had to release the original deposit from the DPS directly to the Tenant, they then received it and sent across the new deposit (larger amount) which I then protected, all within timescales and served PI again etc..

At some point in that scenario there was a gap where there was no deposit, but there was no gap where the Tenants did not live in the property. I think small gaps are probably OK - although your situation obviously sounds different and it's a bit hard to follow 'cos there's a lot of text... but you must serve the PI again and you must get it signed (there's space on the default DPS template, anyway, to do this). You say you served it... but did you not bother to get it signed? Email sending of PI would not be enough, anyway.

If your Tenant is denying they ever received something but you have a copy in your possession with everyone's signatures, why not copy it and send it to them... shouldn't that blow their concept out of the water rather quickly?

Apologies if this doesn't answer your questions directly, you may need to net out the situation.

Hi again
Thanks for the reply. Yeah sorry I do waffle.  Basically I did serve the paper-based PI, they did sig it, but as the tenant is dodgy they can easily deny it's their signature, etc etc....nightmare.  I would have thought that hard copies would indeed blow it out of the water.

I now realise that I should have done what you did.  They don't make it easy do they?  I honesty did all I could and have still ballsed up.  Could be facing massive fee now.  It is tempting to get them to go early and refund deposit in full, but does that enable the tenant to sue for non-returned/badly protected deposit even if they get their mitts on the entire lot and it is all returned I full?  I've got the certificates. Oh Gawd.

As with Hippogriff, I did sort of follow what you were saying in your original post, but may have lost the thread slightly.

If you believe you have acted correctly in good faith and there has only been a small gap/lapse in timescales you may wish to invite the tenant to do their worst and have your day in Court. Just because they file the claim it is not a given they will be successful. It is for the Court to decide on the merits of the claim having considered all of the circumstances and evidence put before it.

Having said that, reading between the lines of your post, I am not sure that you are entirely convinced of the righteousness of your cause! If you do return the deposit your tenant can still file a claim if they believe you have not fully complied with the regulations. Should the claim be successful, the fact that you have returned deposit would essentially mean they not suffered any loss, so any penalty would in all likelihood be at the lower end of the scale.
The process is initiated by the tenant filing a claim at the County Court.

With the deposit returned your sect 21 would be valid and you could proceed to evict at the end of the tenancy if they failed to vacate. IMO sending emails to the effect of "I will do X if you promise not to sue me" may be less than wise if you anticipate the possibility of litigation.  Sorry if that sounds harsh.
Help to evict tenants and defend these sorts of claims by tenants is available. PM if you find you need it. Hopefully you wont.

Hi there...I would like to PM you...pretty urgently!