UK Landlord Forum / Life

My daughter has rented my house for 3 years. Me and her mum split up after 30 years. I need her out for the cash but dont think she will go because she cant get anywhere near as cheap.
I gave her a section 21 almost 1 year ago but she hasnt moved.
My friend said I need to post the section 21 through the letterbox and take a picture, along with gas and electric certificate.
She has a copy of the certificates. British Gas did the gas certificate but couldnt pass the fire as it didnt come with instructions for the fake logs. They still serviced it though. They also didnt do the oven but no idea. My friend says this is a problem .
She has never missed rent. She is classed as disabled and on benefits.
She will know the law in and out.
my other option is giving her a new rolling contract and increase the rent as much as possible

What are my options.

What if I sold the house while she is in it

Quote from: duncan h on August 23, 2023, 07:56:48 AM
My other option is giving her a new rolling contract and increase the rent as much as possible

What are my options.

You were given advice to allow the tenancy to become a rolling Statutory Periodic Tenancy, to increase the rent, and then follow the legal process to evict when you first posted about this: https://www.landlordforumproject.co.uk/landlord-advice-help/notice-required/msg34164/#msg34164

QuoteWhat if I sold the house while she is in it

Then, apart from the difficulty of doing that, you'll lose a lot of money on the sale. What other landlord would want to buy your property with a tenant who is paying well below the market rent and who is difficult to evict?

Quote from: HandyMan on August 23, 2023, 10:18:46 AM

Quote from: duncan h on August 23, 2023, 07:56:48 AM
My other option is giving her a new rolling contract and increase the rent as much as possible

What are my options.

You were given advice to allow the tenancy to become a rolling Statutory Periodic Tenancy, to increase the rent, and then follow the legal process to evict when you first posted about this: https://www.landlordforumproject.co.uk/landlord-advice-help/notice-required/msg34164/#msg34164

QuoteWhat if I sold the house while she is in it

Then, apart from the difficulty of doing that, you'll lose a lot of money on the sale. What other landlord would want to buy your property with a tenant who is paying well below the market rent and who is difficult to evict?

I was hopping to keep the property, so didnt follow it up.
I didnt renew her contract so as far as I am aware, Its now a Periodic Assured Shorthold?? I can only increase the rent by 10%, which she can contest
She moved into the property before she even got a contract. The idea she paid me rent without a contract. Unfortunately she needed one for her benefits.

Reading section 21 requirement's, she would have been given EPC certificate, gas/elec, rental book. None of which she got. 
property was purchased with EPC which lasts 5 years.
gas and electric came later

The section 21 notice has now expired.

Why can you only increase the rent by 10%?

EPCs last 10 years, but only need to be given to the tenant at the start of the tenancy.

If there is gas and there was no gas safety certificate when the tenancy began, it will never be possible to serve a valid s21 notice.

I thought I read on HMRC website the max was 10% per year. I cant find it now. Citizens Advice say as long as it reasonable.

British Gas Certificate does list the fire and cooker. It says Appliance Safe...YES. Required to test ...No.  Yet boiler say tes. Mo idea why but its says they are safe

You can increase the rent by any amount the tenant agrees to pay.
If the tenancy is periodic and there's nothing in the tenancy agreement about rent increases, you can impose a new rent which becomes the amount the tenant has to pay. There's an appeal's process which almost no one has ever used.

I think the issues you raise are just a diversion to avoid dealing with the situation.You mention "rental book" at one point.Why would you have needed to give that,has she been paying you in cash? I can't help but think there is more to this story.Whatever,you need to pay a solicitor to take action for you if you are unable or unwilling to follow the advice you have already had on this forum. 

Quote from: heavykarma on August 29, 2023, 09:02:50 AM
I think the issues you raise are just a diversion to avoid dealing with the situation.You mention "rental book" at one point.Why would you have needed to give that,has she been paying you in cash? I can't help but think there is more to this story.Whatever,you need to pay a solicitor to take action for you if you are unable or unwilling to follow the advice you have already had on this forum.

No more to the story.
She will do anything to not leave the house. She will know the law inside out. She is also registered disabled, so that will make it even harder.
Councils arnt re homing unless they have eviction notice....so i was told

Her being disabled will not affect anything, other than her priority for social housing.

You can increase the rent to full market value and sort out what needs to be done if you want to retake possession of the property.
If you don't know how to do either or both of those things, I'd pay someone who specialises in doing them.

You can try selling the house with her as a tenant, but there is unlikely to be a lot of interest unless you heavily discount or sell it through an auction.

Should your thread title be GETTING DISABLED DAUGHTER OUT PROBLEM?

Depending on the Disability it would increase the housing duty on the Council, they will have to believe you are a callous bastard and will throw your daughter out on the street.

As others have pointed out your Section 21 expired and I am guessing it was probably void because you failed the prerequisites.

You have three choices:

3. Increase the Rent, if her Tenancy has become periodic you can issue the formal rent increase notice BUT remember she can challenge the increase via the S13 process at the FTT.  I have helped a lot of Tenants through this process since the energy crisis explaining how they show the true market rate and in numerous cases I have actually got the rent reduced, so it can backfire.

2. Ask her if she is prepared to be the Landlord with you as the Superior Landlord, make sure that your Tenancy Agreement has proper clauses for this.  Then help her bring in LODGERS not Tenants, look for NHS staff from the local hospital and have rules like no parties, no smoking, no guests staying overnight etc.  A Lodger only needs 2 weeks notice which she as live in Landlord can serve.  Get a proper Lodger license that sets out all the rules, no lodger must have their own dedicated Kitchen & Bathroom or own entrance.  I had had clients do this and they got so much rent that they did not need to charge their child rent.  Remember HMO rules will apply so make sure you sort that first, check on your Council website.

3.  You could issue a new Section 21, first serving all the right paperwork,  Then help your daughter get the right support from the Council, this could lead to her obtaining a Social Housing property (55% below market rent) depending on her priority need.  This starts with a legally valid Section 21, they will not usually help someone with arrears unless they have a compelling duty as they consider it intentionally homeless. When she gets the S21 she must take it to the Council and register as in danger of becoming homeless.  You really need to ride the Council through the process as they often gate keep access to the process by telling you to go off and rent privately or pretending they do not owe a housing duty. 

To be eligible for help from the Council she needs to establish she fulfils some criteria

Local Connection - She should have lived or work in the area for at least 2 to 5 years

Each Council will publish their criteria and priorities.

They will create a personal housing plan which is generally a copy pasted document with her details and a load of tips that as much use as a canoe with no paddle, BUT she needs to show she has carried out the steps you and the council need her to take.

For example she might be on benefits and need to show none of the local Estate Agents or Private Landlord will accept her, this opens up a can of worms because it has already been shown that it is discrimination, so smart Estate Agents are loathe to admit it in writing.  They tend to just say they had a huge number of applicants that were more suitable.  Gathering these letters is part of the evidence.

The Council will always contact the existing Landlord and ask if they will give the Tenant just 2 months more, they may offer to pay a deposit and 6 months rent.  They do this to remove their housing duty so your response will be "I am sorry I can't I need to sell the property before it is sold by the Mortgage company".  If after she is gone you do not sell the property but rent the place as an HMO that will be noted and you can expect enforcement for any deviation.

Some Councils will insist that she waits until the Section 21 has expired and you take it to Court, there are ways to hassle some Councils along the lines of that process causing her huge debt, massive anxiety & stress and that it would irreparably damage her relationship with one of her parents who is only evicting her because he himself is facing a financial crisis.  Whenever, they decide they are going to help they will PLAN to move her into Temporary Emergency Accommodation based on her PRIORITY NEED, this need is a rating or a score, it varies from Council to Council, there may be all sorts of Caveats.  I do not know her disability but if she has a diagnosed condition that prevents her from being able to defend herself in Court you can expect it to delay proceedings considerably.

When a Council uses a letter to denote the priority most people who are homeless will get no better than D and this rating determines their success in bidding for Social Housing provided by the Council, Housing Associations and Partners. There is a time limit for how long they can be stuffed into a hotel, it used to be six weeks but since the boat people it is just going to vary by area.  From a hotel they should be moved to a dedicated Temporary Housing Hostel type facility, these vary around the Country, some are very good, others less so.  Most people spend at least a year in Temporary Housing because there is a time limit, a year passing affects their Priority Need and because those places cost way more than PRS because they are typically staffed and have heavy security. 

If the disability is high they may be able to challenge the Priority Need from the outset, the only successful challenges come with medical practitioner support and it has to be one who has met and assessed the Tenant professionally.  I.E. They didn't just pay some private GP or Consultant.  There is a way to assess how well a Tenant is doing on the bidding system because they are told in broad terms where their bid came, if Tenants do this they can assess how long they will be in Temporary Housing.  At first they may be told their bid was between 50-100 and their bids may remain in that band for a while, unless they are bidding on a shithole property in a naff area.  They usually have to place at least 3 valid bids a week (they can't bid on properties beyond their needs so she will likely get to bid on 1 bed flats or studios).

When it changes to 20-50 then they have their first evidence that they are moving in the right direction, she should not the property areas from the beginning, many will be from the same areas, she should go visit those areas and even look for the property (she will not be given the full address but a picture).  The ideal social housing is that from mixed developments, sadly George Osborne screwed that up when he was Chancellor, in fact he signed the death warrant for social housing, which I believe has contributed to some of the shortages we have today.

It is a tough process, there are some shortcuts depending on her disability but in my opinion social housing should be helping the disabled first, she might get a C rating from the outset, once she is in Social Housing she is in secure accommodation, the rent has tougher restrictions on increasing, as long as she pays her rent  and there are no antisocial behaviour issues she will be secure. 

Start with the links below from the shelter website to help you understand the process.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/homelessness/homeless_and_living_with_family_or_friends

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/homelessness/check_what_council_homeless_help_you_should_get

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/homelessness/legally_homeless

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/homelessness/priority_need

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/homelessness/get_help_from_the_council

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/homelessness/emergency_housing_from_the_council

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/homelessness/get_help_from_the_council/challenge_a_council_decision