UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi All,
I don't know if I'm going to be slated so apologies if I offend anyone!
I have no knowledge of being a private landlord and don't see myself that way. Through circumstance and my well being I decided to stay in my motorhome after spending 3 months travelling Europe. I feel happier living a more outdoor life.
However, this isn't the plan forever and I don't know if I'll even continue through the whole winter or beyond next spring. I don't know what I want to do at present. I'm 51, kids have left home... I'm figuring out what I want.

However, I now have 2 lodgers in my 2 bed flat, they are friends of my daughter's pay a low rent but cover my costs and do give a small income from it too.

I've just found out that because I'm not living there any more they are 'tennant' not lodgers and I'm a 'private landlord' and need to have a licence that will cost almost £600. But if I was living there I wouldn't need it.

I don't have any other address or home, if I say I'm going to live there what is the official criteria to 'living' somewhere? Because having a van and being a traveller I have the right to be away as much as I like surely?
There is a separate large living room with sofa bed so feasibly I could live there occasionally.

I feel it's also unfair because it is just 2 small areas of the whole of Bristol  City where this is a requirement? Private landlords across the city do not need one.

Obviously, I don't want to get into trouble but it feels very unfair and it is still my only home, even if I'm not in it?

Many thanks for any advice
Nicki

Quote from: Nicki on November 23, 2020, 03:09:01 PM
I've just found out that because I'm not living there any more they are 'tennant' not lodgers and I'm a 'private landlord'

As I understand it, the test of whether they occupy the property under a tenancy or a licence isn't actually whether you live there, but whether they have "exclusive enjoyment" of the property. Usually it amounts to the same thing but if they were previously your lodgers and you've just gone away travelling for a while, but retain your right to come and go from the property as you please, then you could argue that's not a tenancy.

How does it work with the bedrooms? Do they have one each or is one still notionally yours?

Hi Simon, thanks for the reply.

They each have a room and pay for that room, but of course have the use of the other areas too. But I know they wouldn't mind if I said I would need to have the living room to stay in when I'm back occasionally .. (if I decide to do that.)
But I don't really want to do that if the council are going to say you have to be there 3 times a week to quantify living there.

We don't have a tenancy agreement at present. We did start with a 6 month one but that expired a couple of months ago and none of us felt the need to renew one.

It's more what the criteria is for me living there I think? But I'm not sure. Maybe I should just speak to the council again and ask that?

Thank you

If you had a tenancy agreement at one point, but didn't renew, that tenancy still exists. Just because a fixed term tenancy agreement's formal end date is reached it didn't then end. It became statutory periodic - effectively the same tenancy running for perpetuity (you do not "not have a tenancy agreement at present" unless the other was expressly ended, usually by people leaving). These people you hope are Lodgers (either always or now) are clearly Tenants. You are a Landlord. All of the obligations that come with that are expected... another bridge to cross.

This would worry me.You do have full landlord responsibilities,with a periodic lease.Belonging to this group for so long, I am sorry to say you really cannot be sure that these tenants will not turn on you for financial gain.If you want them to stay you need to sort out all the red tape.I do see where you are coming from,and hope this ends well,but you need to hope for the best and prepare for the worst as Jack Reacher says.Good luck!

They are very much tenants by your description, and almost certainly with an assured shorthold tenancy, which means all the legal requirements that comes with it.

Quote from: Simon Pambin on November 23, 2020, 04:23:10 PM
As I understand it, the test of whether they occupy the property under a tenancy or a licence isn't actually whether you live there, but whether they have "exclusive enjoyment" of the property.

You managed to combine "exclusive possession" and "quiet enjoyment". I like it. 

Quote from: KTC on November 24, 2020, 10:23:34 AM

Quote from: Simon Pambin on November 23, 2020, 04:23:10 PM
As I understand it, the test of whether they occupy the property under a tenancy or a licence isn't actually whether you live there, but whether they have "exclusive enjoyment" of the property.

You managed to combine "exclusive possession" and "quiet enjoyment". I like it. 

Yes, sometimes my brain doesn't seem to have exclusive enjoyment of my fingers ... or quiet possession, come to that!