UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi, I am feeling very upset with my tenant. Below is the situation :

1) 5th April / Wednesday  : Tenant informs estate agent that the hot water tank is not producing any hot water.
2) 6th April / Thursday : Estage agent informed me in the evening. Estate agent's plumber visited my flat and informed we need to replace the part that emmersion heater (not sure if they are the right words). As I have plumbing insurance from a reputable company, I immediately called the company to have a visit maid.
3) 7th April / Friday  : The plumber from the company visited my place. Was informed that the item can be fixed by 11h April, after parts are obtained.
4) 10th April / Monday : Called plumber's team to ensure all are ready for them to fix the item on Tuesday (the next day). Was informed that parts will only arrive on Wednesday.
5) 12th April / Wednesday : Plumber visited and say they are not able to change the part as it can't be taken off. They will have to change the whole tank instead. As it is a special part, and also because of Easter Bank Holidays, they will only be able to get the part the day after the bank holiday, and fix it the next day, being 19th April.
* This means my tenant has to wait for 2 weeks to get the hot water tank fixed.
* At the same time, I worked very hard to ensure I push for the best possible dates. Mind you, I called plumbing organization a few times a day nearly everyday. I didn't rest and didn't take things for granted, which chasing everything like crazy.

6) 13th April / Thursday (today) : Estate agent called me to tell me the following :
- Tenant is upset.
- She is may see the council, and also may see a solicitor on this situation she is facing.
- She wants the water boiler to be fixed by this week (even when it is already Thursday today, and tomorrow is Good Friday, and it is a public holiday, and Saturday and Sunday are weekends, and Monday is public holiday). If she didn't get hot water, she would not pay full rent and will be deducting 50% of the rent as she has to wait 2 weeks for hot water.
- I couldn't find any compromise from the tenant.

Estate agent suggested the below :
- They will have their plumber to get the hot water tank (heating element if I am not mistaken) fixed anyway and try to replace what insurance plumber can't. They are quite sure this can be done, but if they can't, it is a risk I have to take. When I called plumbing company to see if this is workable, I was informed if a 3rd party fix it, the insurance will not cover the boiler anymore. So, this is not an option.
- To fit an electric shower in the bathroom so that the tenant have hot water from Saturday onwards. This will cost me £550 appx. And the water tank will be replaced as scheduled with the plumbing company. 

I felt my hands are tied and twisted to my back. My only option is to get an electrical shower fitted that will cost me £550 appx. to have all done by this weekend. I have chosen this option, but I felt so violated, and threatened. I felt vulnerable as well, with the non compromising nature of the tenant.

Please may I hear thoughts on the above about anything and everything at all ? All this has been so hectic and stressful for me. I was on the phone the who day today - getting quotes, contacting the plumbing company, discussing with my estate agent over and over again, etc etc etc. This experience makes think if this tenant is suitable for me, or should I end the tenancy after the tern, etc. I feel upset, angry - I am not happy at all !

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

Thank you.

You have my sympathy.You need to stand back,and tell yourself the tenant is full of bluster,they won't carry out any of the threats.You have come to a reasonable decision.I doubt that the immersion heater could not be changed without the whole tank,sounds like a way to get extra money to me.Nonetheless,a shower heater is always a good idea,and will prevent such a situation arising in the future.Stop running around like a headless chicken phoning people,you are making yourself ill,and probably irritating a lot of other people as well.This will be sorted quite soon.Your tenant cannot legally withhold rent when you have acted promptly,the council won't care about such a petty matter,and she won't spend money on solicitors' fees.

Thank you HeavyKarma, for your kind reply. An experience here that has caused me alot of money, and headaches. What I am not happy about it the tank will be replaced anyway on this Wednesday, and if the tenant is willing to wait for another 4 days, all will be well. I was even willing to compensate the tenant some costs of boiling hot water, etc, but never mind. Don't want to think further. For this month, I made much loss from the rental of my flat - the elecrical shower, service charge, insurance, estate agent, etc etc etc !! Not a very happy bunny and I ..

While it is your responsibility to ensure the property is in good working order, you cannot afford to have an unruly and unrealistic and unreasonable Tenant running rings around you. You appear to be doing all you can, even if you come across like you're in a bit of a flap - that might just be the kind of person you are - and the Tenant saying they're going to withhold rent after around 1 week or so is not acceptable at all. Everyone agrees it's not good and maybe the Tenant deserves to be compensated in some way (this is why I usually start to think about my own £ offer well before the notion arises in their mind) but any Tenant that mentioned they'd be withholding rent from me, when I knew I was doing my best, would shortly be looking for a new place to live.

It really is as simple as that. My Tenants are my customers - I treat them with respect - but if that respect isn't two-way then I don't want a business relationship wth them any more. I have had things break in properties... things break, right? And the litmus test is whether any Tenant could do the repair quicker and better than you as the Landlord... if "yes", then you're likely doing something wrong, but the answer is usually "no".

Get things resolved at this property and then take a breather and decide whether you want this Tenant to be your customer any more. There's pros and cons.

Or, do what I did last year - there were some Tenants that I knew I wanted shot of, but I didn't want to risk sending them a Section 21 because I felt they'd react in a really negative way to it, unpredictably... so I raised the rent by £50 per month and that encouraged them to leave of their own accord - they felt that they were taking the decision, rather than it being enforced upon them. If they had stayed and paid the extra £50 per month, I would have accepted that as 'compensation' for their infuriating behaviour.

Dear Hippogriff,

Thank you for kind reply. Very much appreciate hearing from you. I think the constrain with me is I think too much, analyse too much, and worry too much.

In the case I was in, I felt pressured by my estate agent to give in to the tenant. In one hand, I felt they could have stood their gound and said 'No, the landlord has tried her very best' (as they know what I have done), and in another hand, I think they would not be so firm in their request from me if the tenant has not demanded that way. But never mind, that is the past now.

I agree thoroughly with what you have said, Hippogriff. This relationship has to be a 2 way relationship. I will take your advice, Hippogriff. Resolve the constrains and then think what I want to do next. Thank you so much for your sharing of thoughts, experiences and advices. Much appreciate them.

There are many Estate / Letting Agents out there who truly do not understand who they work for, and try to take both sides or the Tenant's side in any conflict. It is worth remembering that the Agent only works for the Landlord - the Agent is exactly that - the Agent of the Landlord. Many Agents forget this. It is all very strange. If the Agent is not acting in your interests - fire them.

Sorry but I disagree that the delay is a reasonable one. If insurance hadn't been in place the plumber who first attended could have tried to remove the broken part in order to fix it and then when it was apparent that it was stuck in place made alternative arrangements at that time. Immersions that are stuck are a common problem and I would have expected any decent plumber to have anticipated that problem before waiting for the parts to turn up.

I have no idea who the insurance is with but a few of my landlords have cover similar to this and it's a nightmare as they invariably want to use their own tradesmen who provide the sort of service that the insurance company's budget buys rather than the sort of service that is required to deal with the problem in a timely manner.

Where I think the agent has gone wrong is continuing to deal with it when you seem to have taken over responsibility for the matter. I don't know why, if they were being pressured by the tenant, they simply didn't suggest the tenant calls you as you seemed to be happy enough to chase everyone up. Suggesting an electric shower seems a bit drastic but I suppose it will be there in case of water problems in the future.

As Hippo says though, if you are unhappy with the service the agent has provided (and it sounds as though you are) then take over the management of the place yourself and save yourself some money.

Thank you, David, thank you Hippogriff, for both your replies.

Just an update on what has happend. Today, I am being forwarded a bill for approximately £715.00 for the electrical shower by my estate agent. And guess what ? When I have asked about warranty, the statement I received on email was 'n/a'. So, it seems I paid £715 approximately for works done and I don't even know if there is any kind of warranty with the works done. An expensive lesson I have learnt from this experience. It was an exhausting few days for me and I am at the point of breaking down. I didn't fight anymore and just asked for the amount to be deducted from the rents there are.

On a good note, the immersion heater has been replaced - hopefully all will be well from now onwards.

A very unhappy day today. Upset beyond words and thoughts.

ps : I did ask the estate agent if I can communicate with the tenant on this regard before all the heated discussions. I sense reluctance from estate agent's end on the contact and didn't pursue further.

The Agent is protecting their 'value add' of being the bridge between Landlord and Tenant... and never the twain shall meet. Option - don't use an Agent at all.

Hi all, another update. It seems the tenant went to see the estate agent saying that a £150 will have to be deducted from the rental. I was also informed that she went to see a solicitor on this regard and was informed that a landlord cannot let the tenant do without hot water for more than 24 hours ?   

I feel so used and abused .. 

What would you do if you are in my situation ?

Apart from that, I also feel very vulnerable now - with the tenant in my property. I don't feel safe at all ..

I am wondering how long you have had this property? It may just be that you are feeling generally low,but if all this distress is because of the tenant and the repairs you might be wise to sell up.Regarding the bill,if there was an invoice attached-which there should have been-you should contact the electrician yourself and ask for the guarantee.You  only have to read  the stories on this and other forums to realise that electrical repairs,bolshy tenants etc. are very  common,par for the course.I and  many others have had truly horrendous tenants,criminals,drug dealers,huge rent arrears,trashed houses etc.It is very stressful at times,and eventually you may have some really bad experiences.Maybe get out of BTL before you are  made ill.I have used agents for full management for several years.I know it is expensive,but managing 5 myself had turned me into a nervous,angry wreck.If you can't trust your agents,you should change.As it is,you seem to be keeping a dog and barking yourself.Try to get some respite this weekend. Big Hug.

Hi,

I am unsure if you have managed to resolve the heating repair.

Firstly I would be advising your agent that if the flat was there own home they would not be able to get the repair done any quicker than you.

I would contact the company that you pay the insurance to and say if a plumber can fix/repair the heating part then you expect them to attend immediately and do the same, if they refuse then I would be requesting a full refund of monies for the apparent repair cover you are paying for.

To ease the situation you can offer a monitory form of compensation whilst you are repairs the water tank.

I hope you manage to resolve the repair easily.
Regards

Quote from: Daisies on April 21, 2017, 10:06:08 AM
Hi all, another update. It seems the tenant went to see the estate agent saying that a £150 will have to be deducted from the rental. I was also informed that she went to see a solicitor on this regard and was informed that a landlord cannot let the tenant do without hot water for more than 24 hours ?   

I feel so used and abused .. 

What would you do if you are in my situation ?

Apart from that, I also feel very vulnerable now - with the tenant in my property. I don't feel safe at all ..

There's always the kettle

I assume all of the talk about refund & solicitor took place before the now fix to the boiler/electric shower fitted, etc. If so then this situation should settle itself down. Solicitors are expensive and really only worth going to if claimant has a solid case/big claim to win, otherwise it may prove more expensive for the claimant if win or lose they can't recover their cost from the other party. The tenant may be bluffing or just gone to citizens advice, otherwise the implication could be that the tenant could come out worse off if they took this too far for something that is quite minor. It could well be that you have a tenant that is a bit prone to resorting to legal action or one who just know that talk of this will galvanize recipient into action. You say you live in the same building as this person? i.e live in Landlord/Lady. If so I would not want them residing there long so Hippogriff's advice about raising the rent in the near future with a subtle gap between incident seems appropriate. After all how are they going to react next time? Maintenance issues are a common occurrence and while a long delay of say more than a couple of weeks isn't really on to go so full on at the start seems a bit overkill from the tenant.

My thoughts on the LA is they may be trying to keep an angry tenant at bay to avoid inflaming the situation further. My only personal thought though is if its just the odd one or two properties you rent out it might be worth dealing with tenants direct which may be more reassuring to them when problems arise rather than a formal ambiguous figure in the form of an LA. This way they are not disconnected from the situation.

Actually, having thought about it, its an interesting case study here for us all as anyone of us could end up in this situation. My thought is perhaps it would be best to cover any such eventuality in the contract. That way it takes a lot of the steam out of the situation to begin with, no pun intended both Landlord and tenant would have an immediate recourse and something to refer to which they have both signed up to. So say you could say after 21 days if no maintenance forthcoming on issue then up to 20 percent off the rent for the month at the discretion of the LL and in relation to the size of the problem/discomfort faced. This would at least limit the liability from the LL perspective and give an immediate resolution. After all, most of us would probably agree its only reasonable to give some recompense if a facility is being rented out but not fully functional for some time, our fault or not. I think part of the problem here is that the tenant comes across to the LL(or us) as having a bit of an abrasive attitude, but of course if money is being demanded then that person isn't going to come across at all well from the outset as none of us like having money demanded of us.