UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi there,
I have rented out my property for the last 2 years to the same Tenants using an Agent. I recently decided to put the property on the market and therefore asked the Agents to give notice to the tenants. Things were amicable and they were texting me before they left. They had the keys for a week longer than they should have and the Agent wanted to charge them extra and take it out of the deposit but I said to waive this if they left the property the following day which they did. A good deed I thought.

When I got into the property after finally getting the keys back it was in a filthy state, the walls covered in dirt and black marks, every single socket was black with dirt, they had obviously been smoking as the walls are yellowy and there is dust everywhere with ash in it. Stains on the carpet which obviously hadn't been attempted to be cleaned up, drinks spilt up the walls. I could go on. I didn't expect it to be spotless but this is really very bad.  I told the agents I was unhappy with the cleanliness and sorted out a professional cleaner and said I wanted to try and claim it back. Also two of the fire doors are badly damaged. They are full of dents/holes and one of them has a big chunk out of the edge of it. These need to be replaced as it looks terrible so a claiming for those too. The Agents have written to the tenants returning a small proportion of their deposit and informed them that I am claiming the amounts I am but they have not heard anything from them. The agents say that if they don't hear anything the rest of the deposit will have to stay in the scheme for a further 6 years!!! I just wanted to check this is correct?

Thanks in advance and sorry for the essay.

Why have the agents returned any deposit at all? From what you describe you will be lucky not to be out of pocket even with the deposit. Until you can estimate your costs the deposit should remain where it is.If you had full management the agents would be expected to carry out checks at least every 6 months,and should have informed you of the state of the house and the damage,and given the tenants a list of what would be expected of them to allow the deposit to be returned.
I once had a tenant who disappeared owing rent and leaving a filthy house.There was a longer delay than usual before the deposit was released to me,allowing for formalities,but only a few months as I recall.Maybe the laws have changed,but 6 years sounds outrageous.

Thanks for the response Heavykarma.  Sorry I should have said I obtained a quote for the cleaning and also my father in law obtained the price of the doors as he is able to fit these - he in the trade. The Agents didn't seem to be too keen on me claiming too much and said I couldn't' claim for his labour only the doors. I think they were hoping I would put it down to wear and tear and be on my way but it really is a state. She has deducted the total of my quotes and returned the remaining amount to the tenants but I was unaware of this until after the event. I did have full management and was paying 5% towards that each month. I had to keep chasing them to inspect t he property and each time they said it was fine. I don't mind a couple of months to get the money back as you say but 6 years seems ridiculous. Surely if they cash the cheque for the small amount then that should be classed as acceptance. I am surprised I haven't heard from the tenants direct to be honest.

I would definitely do things differently if I were to rent out another property in the future that's for sure.

Have now been informed by the agent that because the tenants haven't responded within 14 days they need to forward it as a dispute to the TDS and they will decide who gets the deposit. I've heard the TDS often side with the Tenant has anyone had any experience? Thanks

I dont use TDS (I find DPS very helpful and straight forward and have no experience of TDS).

However ojne thing strikes me from your emails...why are still doing all this through the agent?
Is it because the agent is the one that secured the deposit?

If so first lesson learnt is NEVER get anyone to secure the deposit other than yourself.  Remain in control. (I know you are selling up but others read these posts).

Next even though the agent is the person that has deposited in said scheme there is nothing preventing you from contacting the TDS directly (the DPS folks are very helpful) on general questions...

However I suspect that you have not done even the most basic level of investigation yourself and so sympathy is thin...nevertheless see link below from the TDS website itself !!!   

https://www.tenancydepositscheme.com/resources/files/I%20can't%20contact%20one%20of%20the%20parties%20at%20the%20end%20of%20the%20tenancy.pdf

If they cannot contact the tenant then they will not do anything Im afraid.
The 6 years limit comes from the Limitation Act 1980.
Technically, if you are on the ball you could indemnify the agent but that requires some level of thinking through and co-operation on the part of the agent who is unlikely to accept the risk.

To answer your question - at least the DPS - are relatively sympathetic to landlords exposed to rogue tenants.  However, to illicit such sympathy requires a decent level of documentation and the sympathy is easier to extract when a tenant has been evicted by due process - which doesn't appear to be the case here.

Dump the agent in any case (if you dont sell up)  they should never have released anything to the tenant and you should have claimed a lot more. You really blew it when you waived the extra rent as that removes any incentive for your agent to chase the deposit - naive, but you are now wiser.

Hopefully you are able to sell your property for a handsome profit and exit the Landlord game

Best of luck

Is it correct that you can't charge labour costs to a tenant deposit? Say for instance a carpet, can I only charge the cost of the carpet, not the fitting of the carpet? Legally I mean not just what you should do.

You cannot charge for your own labour costs... you can't say "oh, I'm worth £15 per hour and, well, the Tenant is actually benefiting from me making this decision"... but you can charge the amount on an invoice from a professional company... otherwise oven cleaners wouldn't be getting employed by Landlords, ever.

Thanks for all your advice. It is a learning process that's for sure.

Angrylandlord - I wasn't expecting sympathy but I agree I have been naïve as I believed an agent recommended by a colleague and fellow landlord would take away the worry of having to deal with tenants direct. I should have insisted on the rent for the extra days they were in the property but to be honest I just wanted them out as soon as possible so I could get it on the market. I was worried they wouldn't leave at all at one point.  The agent I am now selling with advised me that I should leave the claim in the hands of the letting agents.

Hey ho - the documents and evidence has been sent to the TDS now so will wait and see what happens. I do have a lot of photos as evidence. Thanks again for the responses as they were very helpful and I shall bear in mind if I am ever in this position again.

Didn't know whether to start a new post but will add on here anyway. The TDS claim is going through. The tenants haven't made any response on the online system but they still have time. Anyhow I have been to the property this week and the tenants post is still being delivered to my address. I'm sending most of it back marked as unknown but there are a few hand delivered letters and one of which I can see without opening that it is from a debt collecting agency. I am intending to call them to give the tenants forwarding address but just wanted to check this is allowed? I am not sure what the other two hand written letters are but probably more debt collectors!! It makes me wonder how they passed a credit check for their new rental property.

I don't think you would be breaking any rules by passing on the address,I have done this several times.Regarding the other mysterious letters I have found a steaming kettle works a treat.This was how I found that a tenant,a hotel worker,had borrowed £25k from MBNA using my place as security,declaring it to be his own.They were commencing action to claim on it.From the ensuing nightmare I learned that the Ombudsman is a joke,and you need to protect yourself.Sorry if I sound bitter and twisted! Hope you get it sorted,good luck. 

Quote from: Essex12 on July 06, 2016, 09:06:05 AMI am intending to call them to give the tenants forwarding address but just wanted to check this is allowed?

You must do this, but I would, personally, do it in writing... you could end up in some kind of not-nice situation by speaking to one of these companies, whereby they listen to what you're saying, but still insist you are somehow responsible and they can come and take action against the address - removal of goods etc. - it's probably all nonsense and bluff-and-bluster, but a letter removes that possibility.

Quote from: Essex12 on June 28, 2016, 04:26:04 PM... take away the worry of having to deal with tenants direct.

Dealing with Tenants direct is where all the fun is... avoiding contact with Tenants means you're not actually a real Landlord, you're some kind of property investor... might as well buy gold.