UK Landlord Forum / Life

i've got new tenants and despite stipulating no dogs there are two very 'impressive' bull terriers in residence.
What can I do now that is the best solution, he's not returning my e.mails or messages., can I serve notice even though he's still within his first six months of the shorthold agreement.
thanks

You can but you'd have to go the section 8 route, then a judge has to decide whether or not keeping a pet will allow you to get a possession order.

Much easier to go the Section 21 route.  How long have they been in, how long is the AST term?

Thanks for that.  The contract began on 28th January, '15 and is a six month shorthold contract so just over another five months to run on that sadly.
We went there today only to be confronted with two very large staffordshire types that have been very busy leaving their deposits all over the garden and pathway.  Hardly able to take a step without stepping in something.
I have clearly made a mistake with these new tenants and just want them to leave as I can see my lovely house being trashed. 
I have it in writing from when I asked them whether they had dogs and they replied that they didn't. 
Thanks

As well as in writing, no pets should be in the AST.  Did you protect the deposit and issue PI within 30 days?

The best thing you can do is to issue a section 21 prior to the 2 months that is required to let them know your intention not to renew after the 6 months is up.

Thank you for your help.  It would appear then that he has to right to stay in house for the remainder of the six months even though I would not have let him have the tenancy if he had been honest with me.  How maddening is that.
I didn't take a deposit from him as he didn't have it.  So insult to injury and a lesson learnt.
Kind regards

Quote from: gls on February 20, 2015, 08:17:38 PM
Thank you for your help.  It would appear then that he has to right to stay in house for the remainder of the six months even though I would not have let him have the tenancy if he had been honest with me.  How maddening is that.
I didn't take a deposit from him as he didn't have it.  So insult to injury and a lesson learnt.
Kind regards

They don't have the right to, if they are in breach of their contract (such as no pets) then you have the right to invoke a section 8 and get a possession order.  Obtaining one costs money though and isn't guaranteed.

Are they at least working?

Write to the tenant with regards to an inspection that you ARE going to carry out on YOUR property on XX date and explain in the letter that they do not need to be there if this will pose a problem.

Thank you very much for all the advice and support. 
I at least know where I am now and think that I'd be more prudent to ascertain the costs of removing them before the time is up and weigh it all up on balance against waiting for a more acceptable time since I cannot afford a legal struggle.
Who'd be a landlord??

They are not working but claim housing benefit - ( I know, it gets worse !)  Although at least i'm having that direct from the local council.

Quote from: gls on February 20, 2015, 10:09:55 PM
They are not working but claim housing benefit - ( I know, it gets worse !)  Although at least i'm having that direct from the local council.

It sure does.

Do you know about section 21's and how they work and what happens when they 'expiire'?  If not I'd familarise yourself so you can issue it at the earliest time.

Thanks for that but I thought though that I couldn't go for section 21 anyway due to not having taken a deposit.
I guess some more bedtime reading is in order.

Also, I believe I wouldn't have been able to serve one anyway due to only being one month in to the fixed term of six months.

Quote from: gls on February 20, 2015, 11:40:53 PM
Thanks for that but I thought though that I couldn't go for section 21 anyway due to not having taken a deposit.
I guess some more bedtime reading is in order.

Deffo lots more reading!  Not protecting the deposit invalidates a section 21.  With no deposit then it's valid.

In a simple explanation a section 21 asks for the house back in the legal way and can be done in month 4 of your 6 month AST as it's the statutory 2 month notice period that you have to give.  If they don't leave on the expiry date of the section 21 it allows you to start possession proceedings.

With no section 21, nothing will happen at the end of the 6 month period.  The tenancy will simply go rolling and you'd need to still give 2 months notice.  So it's best to get the section 21 in as soon as you can so it take effect by the AST end date. 

You could serve on now (1 month in) it makes no difference though as they are entitled to a 6 month stay, so your call, do it now to take effect on the 6th month date, or do it 4 months in to take effect on the 6 month date.  If they can't stop the payment being made direct to you (I don't know) then perhaps sooner rather than later would be better? 

You have to get the dates and wording right though.

Got you, i'll be definately doing it that way.  I thought you meant that the actual section 21 had an expiry date on it but from what i read only the section 8 seems to.
I think I better eat all the information hopefully it'll digest better.
Thank you so much for all your input it so helps.
I think it would be more prudent to wait till month 4 before serving the section 21 as the tenants could be too awkward too soon.

One more thing though and it's regarding the two dogs.  Since he duped me about those I take it it would be a piece of cake to insist on their relocation. 
Don't misunderstand me about the dogs, I am a dog lover and have been brought up in the countryside with a houseful of them but the two I came face to face with today are something else.  Not to mention the sea of 'packages' I had to pick my way through.

You can insist all you want, it's what you can do when they don't comply that's the problem. 

I would book an inspection, I would be having words about the dogs.

Just a thought, the council have a private sector rented housing officer.

Speak to them about your concerns, and see if they can come to an inspection with you.

Sometimes a letter from the council might mean they at least stick and flick the shit,

You stipulated no dogs. The Tenant assured you they had no dogs. You turn up and find they have dogs. You'd like to either get shot of the Tenants or get shot of the dogs.

This appears to be your situation.

You can use Section 8 citing a breach of the agreement terms and conditions. I never want to serve a Section 8 in my life, they are too unpredictable.

You can serve a Section 21... but not yet. The fact that you didn't take a deposit is not an issue (only taking one and not protecting it is an issue). You can do this towards the end of their fixed term.

Their fixed term is 6 months. They've been in 1 month. You do not have that long to wait.

I would certainly offer this advice... bide your time. Be patient. Understand that you've been taken for a ride, and never forget or forgive that. These Tenants will be searching for a new home soon... but on your terms. Wait until the time is right to serve a Section 21 and get it served correctly. Then follow the process and have them out. They can't defend against it. They can prolong it, yes, and you might not like that - but if you've prepared yourself mentally for it all, then it will just happen for you.

Then start again.

But don't spend the next 3 or 4 months agonising over the fact these Tenants are in your property and with dogs. Don't even waste your energy in trying to get the dogs moved on.

Be above it all.

Become serene.

Stop communicating with them about this topic, don't be tempted to try and arrange any inspections - you know what's going on. You need time to prepare yourself for the day when you go back into the property and they're not there.

Rest assured you will 'win' in the end... there might be some arrears, there might be some damage, there'll certainly be some mess.

As mentioned before - if all the rent comes from the Council directly to you, then they can't stop that happening and you can serve that Section 21 right now. If they pay any kind of top-up to you directly, then you may wish to do it at the right time to minimise the chance of the top-up not being paid.

This is what I would do. You can't let it eat away at you.

I agree, but I feel quite dis-empowered by all this.  Remaining calm though and trying to rise above it all - not easy but hey ho.
I've always tried to help people and for the most part have been rewarded by having a good relationship in return, win some and lose some I guess.

It is not easy, I concur.

But it must be easier than fretting about things you can do little about for the coming months.

Expect the worst when you finally regain possession and anything else is a bonus. Just accept you can't do much else - legally - before the fixed term comes to an end, but you can line your ducks up and prepare so that they aren't in your property any longer than absolutely necessary.

So their agreement started on 28 Jan 2015 and the 6 months is up on the 27 Jul 2015... you need that Section 21 served properly prior to 27 May 2015. You have plenty of time to do it all correctly... everything right, sent by non-recorded delivery from 2 separate Post Offices with free proof of posting. By the book.

If the boiler has been nicked, your carpets are covered in vomit, the radiators are hanging off the walls, they've painted walls in purple gloss paint and there's the smell of a dead animal somewhere and your garden has been badly tarmaced... that's kinda the worst (I'm sure others can add to the examples, probably from personal experience) but you'll be able to take stock and start again in a better way.

I have to just say that it's so nice to have everyone's support and advice here.  I feel better about it all already forewarned is forearmed and all that, thank you all.

I'm a little late to the party, but good luck with it all and keep us updated. I recently had to go down the section 8 route, which was not fun, but luckily I took T to court on mandatory grounds and won possession. Be confident and thorough, and make sure all your paperwork is in order - then go get your house back.

Whichever route you take it would be prudent to see what, if any, delays there are for eviction by the County Court Bailiffs as some Courts are currently quoting 3-4 months.

If there is a significant delay (say over 1 month) you should consider including a request to use an HCEO in your application for an order for possession. If this is granted, and many are at that stage, then should there be a delay with the CCB you could use an HCEO to carry out the eviction within days rather than months. More info can be found here: http://thesheriffsoffice.com/services/repossession/repossession_of_residential_property

Thank you both for your input, everything is gratefully received and noted for future reference.
It appears i'm stuck with them for the remainder of the term no matter what although I will serve the section 21 on the fourth month to
co-incide with the end of the term.
As for the dogs issue, i'm not sure how best to deal with that.  I want them gone but not sure yet if I can achieve that, i'll keep you posted.
I just hope i've got a house to reclaim that's in one piece at the end of this.

I had similar types of tenants once. In my case, once the S 21 was issued they accepted it and moved on. They gathered up all their bin liners, got the dogs and left - it was as if they were used to having this type of problem. A month rent not paid, mess that you wouldn't believe, but they went. Great advice from Hippogriff. I discovered 600 tins of budget baked beans and a mountain of dirty baby nappies in the cellar. They didn't even have a baby!

Help Guys,
A bit of an update for you guys regarding my faux pas in letting these tenants into my property.
Potted version is :  Housing benefit have agreed to pay rent direct but can't do so until one tinsy piece of information is supplied by the tenant.  Needless to say and for reasons which are known only to this horrible tenant, he's not doing it.  Hence no rent received for the last two months and no prospect of any I fear.
What can I do now in respect of getting them out? 

Never been in this situation myself but it's looking like a section 8 route to try and get them out, but first port of call would be to speak to the council and see what they say about their client stealing housing benefit.

Would it be the case that if the LHA has been agreed to be paid directly to the Landlord, but a piece of information (from the Tenant) is missing, then the LHA won't actually be being paid anywhere?

I think that would be the case?

So, maybe no stealing, maybe just limbo... Councils love limbo.

Just a quick line to mention that you check with your Court to see if there are delays with their own Bailiffs - some have been now to take 6 months to evict do to understaffing and increasing workloads.

If they can do it within a month it makes sense to use them otherwise it might be wise to include a Section 42 application in your initial proceedings so that you have the choice to use an HCEO if needed. A guide is availible here: http://thesheriffsoffice.com/services/repossession/repossession_of_residential_property

Thanks for that.   
I'm giving it this week to get it sorted and then the following Monday that's the route i'm going to take.
In future i'm going to keep my soft side firmly in its box.  My husband was surprised that I let it out on this occasion!
Thanks all.

Just thought i'd give you all the final episode of this saga.  My ghastly tenant shot himself in the foot by fraudulently claiming for various things and naive girlfriend handed me the evidence when I called the other day. 
The partner must have gone ballistic when he got back but whoops too late lol, the cat was firmly out of its bag.  I told him to leave or i'd be handing over all evidence and hey ho he packed up and left.
I've handed over the evidence anyway, the rat deserves all that comes at him.  He left me enough dog sh*t to sink a battleship but at least i've got my house back without the court delays and associated costs.
Result.

Quote from: gls on April 11, 2015, 08:53:33 PM
Just thought i'd give you all the final episode of this saga.  My ghastly tenant shot himself in the foot by fraudulently claiming for various things and naive girlfriend handed me the evidence when I called the other day. 
The partner must have gone ballistic when he got back but whoops too late lol, the cat was firmly out of its bag.  I told him to leave or i'd be handing over all evidence and hey ho he packed up and left.
I've handed over the evidence anyway, the rat deserves all that comes at him.  He left me enough dog sh*t to sink a battleship but at least i've got my house back without the court delays and associated costs.
Result.

Owned 

Glad you got rid of the scum. Remember to give them a on appropriate reference if the next landlord does a background check and asks for one.