UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi @all,

I constructed an outbuilding for temporary stay during main building work, with planning permission and building regulations completed. A friend requested to stay temporarily, and we informally agreed (no written contract) for a two-month period, subject to vacating if neighbors complain or a council inspection occurs. I cover all bills and council tax, with my friend paying rent and bills for me. After three months, neighbors complained, and following council discussions, I orally notified my friend to vacate by December.

Now, he insists on half the rent refund and threatens to stay until January, refusing to pay bills. Despite my initial understanding of a non-assured tenancy, he claims it's assured. Negotiations failed, and he won't vacate without eviction. Winter bills are becoming burdensome.

As a resident landlord with shared access, can I issue a Section 8 notice with grounds 1, 8, 10, 11? Alternatively, can I lock the garden door once the two months' notice expires due to the absence of a written contract?

Appreciate your prompt response.

Many thanks

Your friend is either a tenant or not. If they're a tenant, you can use a section 21 or section 8 notice (although I don't think you can use ground 1 or 8 at this point).

If they're not a tenant, you can lock them out.

But getting it wrong could be disastrous. If the tenant has exclusive access to a "dwelling house" it's probably a tenancy, and that should probably be the default position.

If your assertion is that they're not a tenancy, using a section 8 notice would undermine that argument.

Personally I think that if you can get them out, even if you agree to what they're demanding that might be your best (and cheapest) option, though.

Thanks for the response. He is saying it is tenancy now but that was not agreed before he moved in.

Anyhow if I go via section 8 route why do you think I can't use 1 and 8 -
1. As it is my principal home and I have initially told him that he have to vacate with 2 months notice.
2. He stopped paying from 1st oct 2023 both bills and rent so why can't I use this as by the time I apply for eviction it will be 2 months in arrears

I am getting different responses considering it is outbuilding and not attached to main building, they say it will be considered as AST and not come under resident landlord rule even though he is accessing the outbuilding from shared alleyway and my private garden. Also he was made aware of before he moved in that outbuilding is not supposed to be let as pr council and only providing as temporary accommodation. I am not in a position currently to return the amount he is asking due to financial strain so what are my options?

Thanks

1 - You need to have given the tenant notice in writing that you intend to use the ground (or persuade the court that requirement can be ignored) and that you intend to live in the dwelling as your home. The annexe definitely isn't your home, at best it's part of your home, and you didn't give the tenant that notice.

2 - For ground 8, the tenant has to owe two month's rent when the notice is served and when the possession hearing takes place. The situation when you apply for possession isn't relevant.

The "different responses" are possible arising because the situation isn't black and white (and lots of people don't know what they're talking about).

If the outbuilding is a "dwelling house", ie. someone can live in it, and the occupant has exclusive access to it and pays rent, it's going to be a tenancy regardless of your intention for it not to be. Sharing an alleyway and the garden access doesn't really make any difference. You can still be a tenant living in someone else's home (provided what you rent is a dwelling house).

Most of this depends on what your "friend" is likely to do. You could simply lock them out and they'd have to either involve the police or the local council for anything to happen to you. And the police or the council would have to care enough and/or have the resources to do anything about it.

The police aren't really in a position in most cases to be effective, they don't know they law any more than most people do (illegally evicting someone is a criminal offence - with which almost no one has ever been charged). The council will probably only get involved if your friend claims to be homeless and needs emergency accommodation.

My own feeling is that this is probably a tenancy, and I'd agree an outcome with my ex-friend that ends up with them leaving quite soon. I have little patience for people who ask for a favour and then take the proverbial.

What a horrible person. I hope he is now your ex-friend?   

It will take a Court to deem it a Tenancy, it is your word against his but what would a Judge see if they examined the facts that CAN be confirmed.

He has to take you to Court for forced eviction which is not easy, it is one thing when it is a flat and they have a Tenancy or even if they don't have a Tenancy, the property that was rented exists, it can be found on the postcode finder and so on.

Is the outbuilding on the Land Registry?  Does it have a separate deed?

Based on what you have said, one might hope that is a temporary structure provided for the purpose of aiding construction, so one might call it a Holiday Let and a Judge is always going to consider intention, of the law and the facts.  If the structure is temporary and you do not have planning permission for it to be permanent that is good evidence to support the Holiday Let argument.

It would help your case if he was working for you on the construction, otherwise a judge might ask why you let him use the outbuilding, your reason was that you had a friend who was homeless and asked for help.  You provided that on strict terms that were verbally agreed.

The confusion that may have been expressed might come if the occupant has exclusive possession, it was self-contained, i.e. own entrance, own kitchen and own bathroom/shower.  There are several case laws on this and one of them covers two cases concurrently so difficult for novices to grasp as they confuse both cases.  It would probably turn on whether you were resident and if he shared things like Kitchen and Bathroom with you.

Street v Mountford
https://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/1985/4.html

AG Securites (two in one)
https://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKHL/1988/8.html

If you lived in the same property he could be deemed as a Lodger, that may still be possible if you provide more facts but I am mindful that you may incriminate yourself so perhaps PM me.  Lodgers only need reasonable notice, 2 weeks is typical. 

The Council tax could help you here, was it increased to allow for this outbuilding, is Council Tax charged on the outbuilding? 

Personally, if you are ready to demolish the temporary structure I would give him 2 weeks' notice telling him you have been forced to demolish the outbuilding, use the letter as an opportunity to put in writing your assertion that the building was always temporary and his staying could only be deemed as a Lodger or as a Holiday Let.  Also issue a Tort notice that any possessions left behind will be kept in storage at his cost at X per day.

On the day, do nothing, then soon after, you have two choices on the eviction of a Lodger, peaceful and not so peaceful, if he refuses to leave call the Police, tell then you are evicting a Lodger who refuses to leave and you are worried about a breach of the peace so can they please attend.

The Police are usually totally useless about property law, often helping Landlord evict bona fide Tenants, but in this case he can't show a Tenancy agreement, you can say he was a Lodger or a on a Holiday Let for a strict period of 2 months.  He is not paying rent and Council will not approve the property being let permanently (have copies of the letters ready to give them).  You can say it is a civil matter, he is not a tenant and never has been but you are asking the Police to be present to keep the peace, stick around while the locks are changed and advise him that if he tries to break in he will be committing criminal damage which is a criminal offence.

The other option is to wait until he is out without the Police, still putting his stuff in storage and obviously still with the Lodger 14 days' notice.

I see no grounds to refund rent, the outbuilding was occupied and rent agreed.

IT IS WORTH POINTING OUT THAT FORCED EVICTION OF A TENANT IS ALSO A CRIMINAL OFFENCE, SO BE VERY CLEAR ON WHAT YOU AGREED AT THE BEGINNING, CONSIDER THAT YOU MAY HAVE BEEN RECORDED.

You could determine that you have already provided the 14 days or give him another 14 days. Once they have expired wait until he is out, carefully put his stuff in storage and do enough to make the building uninhabitable, remove doors and windows at the very least, put a lock on the access to the property and the outbuilding.

Never refer to him as a Tenant

If you take the Section 8 or Section 21 you effectively admit he is a Tenant and that creates all kinds of obligations.  If you go down S8 route you can cherry pick

https://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/section-8-evicting-tenants/#grounds

Ground 6 seems the obvious one as well as ground 1 & 8 but get as many in as you can to strengthen your case, 10 & 11 are obvious, 13, 14, 16 & 17 may apply

You can call the energy company and name him as a person also liable for the bill or bring a separate claim for monies owed.

The lessons here are NEVER let to friends or family, always put things in writing and don't even think of letting a temporary outbuilding or anything that is vague.  When you say 2 months evict at 2 months, by letting him stay on until the 3rd month you made things worse.

ALL OF THE ABOVE DEBATE ABOUT IS HYPOTHETICAL FACTS AND YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK YOUR OWN LEGAL ADVICE AND ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT EVERY CASE IS DIFFERENT AND EVERY JUDGE CAPABLE OF FOOLISH DECISIONS.

Quote from: newlandlordvij on November 27, 2023, 12:14:17 PMThanks for the response. He is saying it is tenancy now but that was not agreed before he moved in.

Anyhow if I go via section 8 route why do you think I can't use 1 and 8 -

1. As it is my principal home and I have initially told him that he have to vacate with 2 months notice.

2. He stopped paying from 1st oct 2023 both bills and rent so why can't I use this as by the time I apply for eviction it will be 2 months in arrears

I am getting different responses considering it is outbuilding and not attached to main building, they say it will be considered as AST and not come under resident landlord rule even though he is accessing the outbuilding from shared alleyway and my private garden. Also he was made aware of before he moved in that outbuilding is not supposed to be let as pr council and only providing as temporary accommodation. I am not in a position currently to return the amount he is asking due to financial strain so what are my options?

Thanks

Quote from: newlandlordvij on November 26, 2023, 10:51:03 PMHi @all,

I constructed an outbuilding for temporary stay during main building work, with planning permission and building regulations completed. A friend requested to stay temporarily, and we informally agreed (no written contract) for a two-month period, subject to vacating if neighbors complain or a council inspection occurs. I cover all bills and council tax, with my friend paying rent and bills for me. After three months, neighbors complained, and following council discussions, I orally notified my friend to vacate by December.

Now, he insists on half the rent refund and threatens to stay until January, refusing to pay bills. Despite my initial understanding of a non-assured tenancy, he claims it's assured. Negotiations failed, and he won't vacate without eviction. Winter bills are becoming burdensome.

As a resident landlord with shared access, can I issue a Section 8 notice with grounds 1, 8, 10, 11? Alternatively, can I lock the garden door once the two months' notice expires due to the absence of a written contract?

Appreciate your prompt response.

Many thanks

"a temporary structure provided for the purpose of aiding construction" cannot be a "Holiday Let". If there are people living somewhere while they work, they could very easily be tenants. But they're very definitely not on holiday.