UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi

Our insurance employed lawyers advised
me that we needed to re-issue a section 21 notice as it was a statutory periodic tenancy and a new how to rent guide needed to be re-issued for a valid s21.

Signed tenancy agreement:

8. Where the tenancy becomes a periodic tenancy at the end of a fixed term period the tenant is required to give at least 28days notice.

Personally, from research, this is a contractual tenancy as it is written in the tenancy agreement.

If possible I would like to know peoples opinions on this and where specifically I could evidence that this is a contractual tenancy not statutory.

Thanks in advance

Quote from: Pgtips on January 13, 2024, 10:34:09 PM8. Where the tenancy becomes a periodic tenancy at the end of a fixed term period the tenant is required to give at least 28days notice.

You have quoted a clause that relates specifically to giving notice, which applies where (i.e. if) the tenancy has become periodic.

This clause does not say that the tenancy will continue as a Contractual Periodic Tenancy, the notice clause could equally apply for an SPT.

What does the agreement say elsewhere about what happens when the fixed term comes to an end? If it doesn't say Contractual Periodic Tenancy, then by default it became an SPT.

For example:
"If neither party serves a valid notice to terminate the tenancy at the end of the Initial Term, the parties agree that at the end of the Initial Term the tenancy will continue as a contractual periodic tenancy on a monthly basis."

Quote from: Pgtips on January 13, 2024, 10:34:09 PMPersonally, from research, this is a contractual tenancy as it is written in the tenancy agreement.

I am certainly confused by what you say here and have concluded. I, myself, wouldn't have come down that way.

How would a section 21 notice be different if the periodic tenancy was statutory of contractual?

The clause quoted doesn't indicate what kind of periodic tenancy arises.

Quote from: jpkeates on January 14, 2024, 09:16:47 AMHow would a section 21 notice be different if the periodic tenancy was statutory of contractual?

It's not a question of the Section 21, it's whether Pgtips needed to have supplied the updated How To Rent guide.

For an SPT, yes. For a CPT not necessary.


From https://www.nrla.org.uk/resources/creating-your-tenancy/guide-to-contractual-and-periodic-tenancies

Service of 'How to rent: a checklist for renting in England'

Landlords will often find they are legally required to be serve certain documents at the start of a given tenancy. For example, 'How to rent: a checklist for renting in England' should be served at the start of a tenancy. Crucially it also needs to be served at the start of any subsequent tenancy if there has been an update to the document.

As a statutory periodic tenancy is a subsequent tenancy, landlords have to check at the start of the new tenancy to make sure they have served any updates on their tenants. If not they won't be able to successfully serve a section 21 notice.

Contractual periodic tenancies are not new or subsequent tenancies. As such landlords do not need to check if there has been an update or serve any extra copies on the tenant.

Quote from: HandyMan on January 14, 2024, 02:22:36 PMIt's not a question of the Section 21, it's whether Pgtips needed to have supplied the updated How To Rent guide.

Good spot, thanks!

The issue is wether a new tenancy has been started.

It is quoted within the signed tenancy agreement for 'where' it goes periodic.

Signed contract = contractural from my understanding

Anyone has similer issues?

Quote from: Pgtips on January 14, 2024, 08:57:09 PMIt is quoted within the signed tenancy agreement for 'where' it goes periodic.

You have not shown us the actual clause from your tenancy agreement that states explicitly, that at the end of the initial term, the tenancy continues as a contractual periodic tenancy.

If it doesn't say that, then the 'periodic' that clause 8 makes reference to is statutory periodic.

Quote from: Pgtips on January 14, 2024, 08:57:09 PMSigned contract = contractural from my understanding

You are misunderstanding what the term Contractual Period Tenancy means.

It has nothing to do with the notion of "signed = contractual" that you are trying

From further research, I now understand this is a CPT, no new tenancy was started.

The tenants signing the tenancy agreement - clause 8

"Where the tenancy goes periodic"

This starts the rolling contract after the fixed term. It doesn't have to explicitly state its contractual as it's a signed contract, A SPT only comes in if there is not a clause in a contract.

This guy explains it well.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HUTC623Incc

It will feedback (may take a while) the outcome. Thanks for the help

This backed by nrla

"The first thing to do is read your tenancy agreement to see if a clause detailing the periodic tenancy exists. If one does, then it will normally be a contractual periodic tenancy.

If no clause exists, or the clause specifically states that the tenancy will be a statutory periodic tenancy or arise under Section 5 of the Housing Act 1988, then it will be a statutory periodic tenancy."

If there's a fixed term, there probably isn't a contractual periodic tenancy. Fixed terms "end", that's part of the point of them.

But obviously you should believe YouTube and an optimistic reading of one sentence in the agreement over the legal professionals who you want to process a possession claim. If they're actually solicitors, they shouldn't make a legal claim at all if they believe it has no chance of success.

They were insurance employed lawyers. The same solicitors who got the 2 day service date wrong and invalidated the s21 twice (shed you not).

Haven't received any concrete advise on here either just opinion, so YouTube it is 🙃

Will feedback how I get on, thanks for the assistance
 

You can't get a concrete reply on here because you won't give us details of your tenancy agreement. Contractual periodic tenancies are not the default. There needs to be some concrete and usually quite specific wording to create one.

"where the tenancy goes periodic" isn't enough, although it might relate to another term that does create a contractual periodic tenancy, but you need to find the term that covers the tenancy going periodic. Otherwise "where the tenancy goes periodic" could just be poor drafting.

And, my sympathy, anyone can make a mistake, but not twice!