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My agent refuses to provide CMP proof.

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Author Topic: My agent refuses to provide CMP proof.  (Read 456 times)
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« on: October 02, 2020, 09:27:53 PM »

I strongly suspect my agent has fallen on hard times because of COVID  and our relationship has broken down, his bank account was frozen so I asked to see his proof of membership of a CMP scheme several time but heís refusing, saying Iím mixing it up with a DPS scheme & that Iím covered ? Heís got my back, every time I ask to see proof of his CMP he replyís with the DPS scheme ID number telling me thatís what I asked for ???. That Iíve got it seriously wrong. Thereís no logos trade marks on his web site to say he a member either???

When I asked about membership of a redress scheme he completely blanked it & went on & on about complaining in writing to him, then he justifies his existence by telling how great he is.

We are talking via text & I've kept it very professional, but heís gone from passive to aggressive then saying heís ill, then he looking after his sick mother one minute then asking for 3 years management fees the next to end the contract,  Iíve taken control of the rent & got a deposit back from a previous tenant. Iíve issued him with 2 weeks notice Iíve been with him 4 years 10 months.

He keeps telling me that itís HIS tennant  & I can not talk to her everything has to go through him, he says Iíve ruined the relationship by asking these questions. Heís badgering our tenant as well to pay him.

Any help, I think heís going over the edge.

Cheers Revo.

Basically heís done very little 3 inspections over the 4 years 10 months always late with the rent, & the previous tenants havenít got a good word for him.

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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2020, 10:17:40 PM »

Quote
He keeps telling me that itís HIS tennant

What does the tenancy agreement say about who is landlord?

Quote
Any help

What does the agency agreement say about when and how you can terminate your agreement with your agent?
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2020, 10:31:58 PM »

Hi thanks Iíll have a look, itíll be Sunday before Iím back home aaay on business. Iíll report back then.

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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2020, 10:18:06 AM »

I'm not quite sure what's being asked for here.

If you've taken control of incoming rent and there are no Deposit worries, and you've given him notice that you don't think he'll protest vigorously, what is your issue? The thread is titled something about CMP... but is that what your issue is? You're not saying why this is important to you... are you implying money is owed somewhere along the line? Obviously there may well be problems with the Agent (often there are) but you're all over the place too.

Can you elaborate on what the actual problem is? Is it money owed / lost? Is it serving him notice? Is it the future formalised relationship with the Tenant? What do you mean about getting a Deposit back from a previous Tenant?
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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2020, 03:33:09 PM »

Afternoon yes it was a bit rambling sorry, I think my agent is getting to me.

We had a new tennant in July 2020 & I asked our agent if he has the Client money protection  as itís a legal requirement after 1st April 2019 in England  for all property & letting agents who handle clients/landlords money, it protects the landlords from rogue agents and those who go into administration or lose rent money, then the scheme pays you out. I asked mainly because of the present financial situation re covid.

He told me he was a member so I believed him like a fool, Anyway the agents account was Frozen by the bank late July so I asked him for proof he had a CMP ( client money protection) he then sent me details of the DPS scheme & deposit ID telling me thatís what I asked for, every time I ask him for which Client money protection scheme heís a member of he sends me details of the DPS scheme . Itís like Iím in the twilight zone.

Details of scheme if youíre unfamiliar its on a gov website as well
https://www.tpos.co.uk/members/client-money-protection

https://www.lettingagenttoday.co.uk/breaking-news/2019/9/shock-claim-that-one-in-five-agents-still-have-no-client-money-protection

Iíve asked him 5 times & each time he tells me Iíve got it wrong about the scheme and sends me details about the deposit protection scheme, heís put our tenants deposit and I assume all the others in a custodial scheme because they donít check if the agent has a CMP because the scheme has the money in-house, but they do check for an insured-scheme.

I strongly believe the agent is avoiding answering me, because heís got to show membership to anyone that asks  I know I rambled but I honestly have to check myself every time Iíve asked for his CMP membership & he sends me a DPS scheme if it wasnít so serious Iíd laugh it off.

Heís now offered me a deal to pay him 3 years management fees to get out of the contract or negotiate with him,  buts a legal requirement for him to be a member of a CMP but I strongly suspect heís not & never has been because he canít provide proof.



I hope this makes better sense, he bombards me with texts threatening all sorts & blaming me for a ruined relationship, but then sends another like nothings happen & we can just carry on.

Just a bit worn out by it all

Many thanks, the forum is great Iíve learned a lot about the electrical tests been reading the posts .
.




« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 03:45:34 PM by Revo »
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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2020, 03:37:19 PM »

Iíd like to end the contract because heís operating unlawfully  and protecting our money like he should be with a CMP.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 03:47:06 PM by Revo »
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« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2020, 05:11:54 PM »

I'd like to ask again... has any money been lost? Is any money being held by someone when it shouldn't? Have you lost any money? Are you out any money? Is anyone? There's load of noise here - but no facts about actual injury... just some comments about you worrying about Covid and a scheme... I'm familiar with the requirement but don't use an Agent... so it seems, to me, like you're going about this backwards - shouldn't your focus be on ending your relationship with the Agent..? You have control of the incoming rent - priority number 1. You haven't indicated there are any issues with the Deposit - priority number 2. So what's left?

Why are you wasting your time in this manner if none of the answers to the above questions are yes? Just end the contract - negotiate a 'fee' of £0 - and say your goodbyes. Whatever the Agent may think about owning this Tenant won't work out in practice, will it? You may have to apologetic to the Tenant while your Agent / ex-Agent badgers them for a while... but if you brought it all out into the open, with a shared email?, announcing that you exclusively now manage the tenancy, and all dealings should be with you... it should bring it to a head. The Terms of Business you have signed with your Agent will outline what is expected of you - but the Agent has already offered to negotiate (which is good).
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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2020, 07:24:52 PM »

When you spell it out like that yes i probably am over focusing on things backwards, I probably needed an objective view thanks for that. I have taken control of the rent & yes I am going to take over the deposit with the DPS..& a new contract for them with us.

I have instructed our tennant to pay us direct & I managed to get a deposit returned from him from a previous tennant who admitted damaged,  but getting that back was touch and go, your right no owed monies involved, Iíve read this forum & blog I just followed the advice  on taking back control..

I suppose Iím angry at myself because I asked him about the CMP and he lied about having it, it was extremely risky re letting during covid for me but the new tennant ticked all the boxes. I made the mistake of taking him at face value. Never again.

I suppose Iíll park the CMP issue for now and use it as a lever to negotiate a better deal of Zero, 

Itís bound to cost me something in the end. I suppose the way we were going  about was a race to the bottom, Iíve refused to get embroiled in his ranting and kept is professional from my side. So at least I still have my integrity, even though it might of slipped here a wee bit.

Iím home tomorrow so as I say Iíll grab the contract & spell out the terms.

Many thanks Revo.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 07:33:09 PM by Revo »
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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2020, 04:54:54 PM »

Afternoon Iím back home this is the cancellation charge


In the event that this agreement is cancelled by the landlord, once marketing had begun and prior to the arranging of tenancy, an administration charge of £250.00 is payable if cancelled within 26 weeks. If this agreement is cancelled and on management and during the period of a tenancy then the charge will be equal to the greater of either.

A. The management fees due to the end of the tenancy Agreement or

B. The management fees due to the end of the tenants occupation of the property.

I can not find a specific termination part in the contract.

We pay 10% so itís full management.

So I guess 3 years is a good deal ???

Iím looking for a breach of contract but again no party is out of pocket I can suggest negligence when he only collected part of the initial rent at the start of the tenancy. They signed up the tenants for 6 months, he signed on my behalf then only took his finders fee + the DPS deposit but no month in advance,, then he tried to give me the TA all signed trying to convince me it was all there, when in fact the months up front rent was actually cash missing, the TA is cleverly printed to show two amounts in Red ink the very small black print alongside,

The Term 6 months
The RENT ££££ small print > payable in advance 2 months
The DEPOSIT ££££ Equal to one month

I noticed this discrepancy and I challenged him but he was ready to throw the signed TA at me & drive off, he then made one of the quickest phone calls Iíve ever witnessed to get the tenant to pay the month up front, 20 sec from start to finish.

 I suppose thatís when Iíd had enough.

Looks like Iíll be paying him for ever.


« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 05:28:40 PM by Revo »
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« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2020, 08:37:09 PM »

It's good that you have something written down.

However, I know the approach I'd take... it would be one where, if it worked, no-one would go away happy. The offer is there to negotiate. I'd do that. If you were minded I'd offer the outgoing Agent something you're comfortable with to end things quickly and relatively amicably. Something greater than £0, maybe? The Agent may play hardball and point out this clause in the Terms of Business you signed (without being forced or coerced) and suggest you might change your mind after a Court case. I'd take that bluff. I'd suggest you think a Court would not look kindly upon such a clause... possibly unfair? Just say anything to keep the conversation going... and then raise the CMP thing again, saying you'll bring that up as reason for wanting to end your working relationship... not wanting to be involved with anything illegal.

Lastly, you can change Tenant... if it sticks that much. You would hope that Agent will realise a bird-in-the-hand in worth something... especially if in some kind of money trouble. Going to the hassle of bringing a Court case against you should be unappealing.
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« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2020, 10:53:30 PM »

Many thanks for your reply, yep itís a race to the bottom, I just get the impression then it boils down to a pay off whilst limiting financial damage.


I was hoping the Foxtons vs TS would help with the unfair terms if it went to court but they might not be exactly the same.

So time to negotiate a fair deal to free us of this parasite,


Should I send my my complaint letter whilst acknowledging his over eagerness to negotiate, it outlines in detail he failures and lack of due diligence in respect to our best interests. Also None of the official schemes logos are on his web site which in its self is a 5k fine.


I donít think he has a pot to piss in personally & court would be the last place heíd want to end up, having delved a-bit into his history he is less than credible.

Because I donít trust him do you know of a good source for a termination letter full and final, Iím certainly not signing one he produces.

Many thanks for your support  Revo.



« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 11:00:01 PM by Revo »
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« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2020, 11:06:34 PM »

I would one last time in writing request the agent 1) provide confirmation that they are a current member of a government approved or designated Client Money Protection scheme in accordance with the Housing and Planning Act 2016, 2) provide a copy of their CMP membership certificate, and 3) provide a copy of their Client Money Handling Procedures.

If they fail or refuse to do so, I would just go direct with you are cancelling your agreement with the agent since they can't prove they are operating legally.
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« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2020, 10:17:20 AM »

I would probably take this approach, rather than mine... because it's a negotiating position of £0 (where I'd start)... but it's more hardball... and I might be tempted to go up, then, when the Agent realises something is better than nothing for a quiet life. Think on the differing perspective at the other side... likely thinking things will either continue or they're due 3 years of fees... believing that you're gullible, one presumes. That said... if they magically provide what you ask for... well...

I guess we're covering all bases... however unlikely.
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« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2020, 02:14:19 PM »

Afternoon thanks for the replyís,

Itís the bluff part that concerns me, , but he has to provide the information freely if asked for & he hasnít why ? I donít know, heís not stupid. His approach is quite random emotionally swinging  from one thing to the next.

Iím picking my battles at the moment,

We have 4 options

1, negotiate
2, leave it as is, with the 2 weeks termination because he can not will not provide confirm regulatory mandatory membership. Then wait for court action.
3, get rid of the tennant ( which I donít want to do)

4 get my Solicitor to write him a nice letter. Obviously balancing the costs against negotiations.

I donít want to nail his hat on or fight anyone elseís cause, but my tennant needs the CMP as well as her money needs the protection it offers.

Itís like a test case for me, and all the parasitical bottom feeding LAís out there but I have to ask myself WTF am I!!! doing hanging around there to be fed off  in the first place.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 02:20:31 PM by Revo »
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« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2020, 02:42:06 PM »

Your Tenant doesn't need it, or the protection it offers.

Why?

Because you've already stated no monies are owing anyone and you've taken control of the incoming rent.
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« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2020, 08:13:44 AM »

Good morning.

Tennants need it as extra protection thatís how itís advertised anyway, but in this case probably not.

Iíve found out heís with the TPO, heís still refusing  :-X to tell me the redress scheme even though I know, I eventually asked them myself  ;D they naturally questioned my enquiry about my asking, so I told them just due diligence, at the moment  ;)

Searched all the CMP data bases they confirm memberships of all the other estate/letting agents in my area but none for him.

Electrical test today .... wish me luck.  ::)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2020, 08:28:42 AM by Revo »
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« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2020, 10:25:00 AM »

Sounds to me like you're on your high horse about this. You have control of the monies. Are you waiting for us to give you a get out of jail card with this CMP thing so that you don't have to live up to your contractual obligations?
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« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2020, 10:33:57 AM »

I really would not sweat this at present.Whether he is a rogue,or someone going slowly mad (there's a lot of it about) I would write a formal letter ending your business with him.I would be most surprised if he actually took it to court.Don't start involving solicitors and incurring expense until you have to.I would guess that all that is going on is really getting to you,you can't do much about Covid,so you are focusing the anxiety and anger on this situation. Ask me how I know.Best of luck with the electrical tests.I was delighted that mine all passed,but then my sparks is a sensible bloke who was not looking to milk it for all it's worth.Sadly,I don't know if he will be available in the future,his wife told me he has had a breakdown and needs 3 months to rest.
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« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2020, 11:10:07 AM »

Tennants need it as extra protection thatís how itís advertised anyway, but in this case probably not.

You do realise you have taken control of the incoming rent, don't you?
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« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2020, 08:36:29 PM »

Thanks for all the replyís

EICR All green 👍🏻 One happy LL. sorry to hear about that  karma trusted tradesman are very thin on the ground, my BIL is an electrician but I didnít use him because I donít trust him  :o wouldnít put it past him to charge a few Bob extra for something we didnít need.

Anyway weíve sent a letter of complaint, + a letter ending business with him, not trying to get out of our contractual obligations just mitigating the  cash impact of the buy out he produced out of his genies lamp by inserting lever or two for negotiation time.

We have control of the money. Yes Iím sore but hey ho Iím allowed to be.

I donít think heíll go to court but you never know, hopefully heíll be gone by the end of the month, the solicitor was a freebie a favour.

Iíve followed all the advice 👍🏻

Iím not well known for spending cash believe me.


Itís a great resource this forum. 

Thanks once again Revo







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