UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi there.
I have a rental property that has been with an agent for the last 5 years. I haven't really been that impressed with the agent and rarely let them do much apart from take the rent. I use my own contractors because I don't want to get ripped off by the agents people.
I am thinking on managing it myself but am pretty scared to as I don't know enough about it all and how to do it all right and legal.

Can someone please give me some ideas of what is right and how to go about it.

How to get a tenancy agreement signed by the new tenants
Can you get them referenced in anyway and have a guarantor.
Damage deposits
Inventories
I know you can get some free forms online for some of these but how good are they?
And I don't want to pay out for external companies to do things like inventories either.
I know you can do the damage deposit thing online. Is this ok?
Anything else I have forgotten please remind me.
Thanks in advance.

You - as Landlord - are already responsible for the deposits of Tenants. If your Agent hasn't impressed you, then have you checked they did this aspect properly? If they did not - then you are the one who is possibly going to get stung, not them. Hopefully you can be reassured.

Managing is easy. Nothing to be scared about. Having an Agent do it for you is throwing money down the drain unless there is a good reason... like you are hundreds of miles away from the property in question, then you can't be so effective (in my opinion).

I still use Agents, though... for aspects of Tenant Find... I pay them a modest fee to put my property on the portals and kick off the referencing / checking. I do the viewings, protect the deposit, create the AST, do the Inventory and Schedule of Condition, Check-In, Inspections, Check-Out and handle all communication - rent is paid directly to me. I don't mind using Agents for this, but for what they term "Full Management" then no.

I wrote my own document templates because I have more than one property and I plan to do this long-term. For others that approach might not make perfect sense.

I find attention to detail is a good attribute.

The agent did the whole deposit thing correctly. They registered it and all that. It was just a case of they have been really slack about answering questions and sorting things out. I have recently given the tenant notice and so I am toying with the idea of doing it all myself.

Yes they were charging me 10% plus VAT for doing not a lot.
I live in the same village as the property but I do work away a great deal. But as email is so handy these days this is my main contact.
My neighbour is my handyman for the property aswell so he takes care of things if I am away.

I have a potential tenant lined up but didn't really know if you drew up your own contract and did all the inventory, ref yourself how legal it all was. Without getting a solicitor involved with it all.

The thing with something like inventories even if you do photography everything and get the tenant to agree its still your word against there's. As you haven't got a third party involved who are impartial.

Thanks Hippogriff for your quick reply and help.

You produce an Inventory and Schedule of Condition, with lots of photos and good descriptions and you give it to the Tenants for, say, 7 days to review after they move in... then you agree it and get it signed by all parties, leaving copies for you and them.

It's pretty cast iron at that point. Besides - it's a document to help protect both sides - not just the Landlord and not just the Tenant. Once Tenants understand that, I've found they're happy to give it a good review, maybe make a few suggestions, and then sign. So, if the document takes a fair approach and is realistic, who can really argue?

No need for solicitors for any of these documents.

I prefer my own AST (which I put a fair bit of effort into at the beginning) because the AST is not generic - it can be specific to my property in question. Hence I do now have minor variants of the AST template for each specific property... nothing onerous, but there's no point mentioning the gas stuff, the driveway and gardens in one of my properties which is a city centre apartment.

Can you give me any idea of where to get hold of a copy of an inventory and especially a AST that is good and covers most points.

So bottom line is.
An AST
An inventory
Anything else that I really need to have.

Hi,

I have let properties for nearly 5 years and used the estate agents for the tenant-find service only for which they provide the first tenancy agreement and the inventory. Once the first tenancy is up I have then used mybadapple.co.uk
There are documents on there for any Section 8 or 21 notices and a tenancy agreement.4

I also used The Deposit Protection Service for deposits, it is free and easy to use.

I was lucky that I have friends to carry out repairs. That is the biggest concern for me.

Hi kckbxr86.
Thanks for your reply. I was beginning to think everyone was just going to read and not help me out with this.

The problem I have recently is that my agents are not being that great. I have found a new tenant but was thinking of managing this new one on my own.
Now the big concern is tenancy agreements and inventories and getting my hands on copies of them so I can re create a similar version to use for myself and what to put in them.
So hopefully I wont be needing the section 21 or 8.
But thanks for the tip and if i need it in the future ill give it a go. The site seems ok.

Yeah I did look into the deposit thing. Its about 22 quid to register it or something which is fair enough.

Yes I agree finding some tradesmen you can trust is a bit issue with me too. I dont want to get ripped off as I am a women dealing with this on my own.

Thanks guys.

The DPS Custodial scheme is free. Free to register. Free to lodge a deposit... it's just free. Unsure where your £22 was seen, but it's definitely free. I use it for all deposits relating to my properties.

Do a Google search for ASTs... I don't suggest you just blindly pilfer the first one you come across and use it. That is not meant to sound as though I think you're lazy, but I heartily recommend getting hold of a few samples, reading them through, then creating your own... that way you know exactly what is in it and what its clauses are... what you are asking Tenants to sign up to etc..

An Inventory and Schedule of Condition is not hard... it's just a document with a list of rooms, what's in them and their condition, accompanied by lots of photographs.

Good tradespeople is not just a challenge for Landlords, obviously... it's a minefield out there, for anyone.

Hi,
Right I said I was new to all this so please bare with me. And thanks so much for the advice.
Just done a little bit of research. I got the £22 from the TDS and not the DPS. So that's cleared up.
I have just read about the DPS and there are two types of schemes. Looking into them the custodial one looks like the normal one to use am I right?
Pay in the deposit and they keep it until the tenant moves out. The insured one you keep but pay it in at the end of it just in case there is a dispute.

I have seen a few AST's but as you said I wanted some advice on what to look for and key points to have in it. So nope not being lazy. Its just a bit of a mind field. So many things to think about here and I don't want to forget anything either.

I did assume that the inventory was just a case of a list if you like. I am sure that's easy enough to sort out.

Yep I know I do feel very concerned about being ripped off by people in the trade. I am getting a few good ones on my list though. But good people are hard to come by these days.

Quote from: paulaa on August 04, 2014, 09:42:17 PMI have seen a few AST's but as you said I wanted some advice on what to look for and key points to have in it. So nope not being lazy. Its just a bit of a mind field. So many things to think about here and I don't want to forget anything either.

Ah, so if you already have a few to compare, start there - it's exactly what I did. There'll be common themes throughout and, of course, the benefit of creating your own is that you are creating it... so if your property has a 25 year old conifer in the garden that you don't want to see the Tenant chop down... you can go add a very specific clause forbidding the Tenant from chopping down your 25-year old conifer. This is the advantage of not just taking an AST template and running with it. Just take your time with it - maybe reserve half a day to get the job done properly. The alternative is to pay for an AST - again, it'd be generic, though. I'm assuming you've already seen the RLA option - http://www.rla.org.uk/landlord/documents/tenancy_agreement/doc_AST.shtml - which is £10, that's a drop in the ocean, right?

Inventory is easy, yes. As is Check-In and Inspection if you decide to do those.

DPS situation is now clear, good - it's free all the way. No need to use the Insured options of any scheme unless you are strange (that's my view)... it seems some Landlords like to pay to retain the money with themselves. I don't get that. It's not the Landlord's money. It is the Tenant's money, simple as... the money should ideally reside somewhere where the Landlord can't do things with it... with the deposit protection scheme is the perfect place.

yeah I have just started reading them all. But for someone that has never actually seen one its a bit of a bunny in the headlights thing.
And some the special talk is very confusing. But we shall see how we go.
Good point about the tree. There really is nothing in and around the house that I really need to point out.

I have emailed my agent and asked for copies of everything for my records. But i am sure they will smell a rat with that and take there time to even answer the query.

Yeah thanks for pointed out the DPS system. So the custodial one is definitely the way to go. Thought so.
Thanks ill keep you posted on my progress.

Apart from the DPS, inventory and agreement is there anything else that i need or should think about?

I have the EPC certificate and it lasts for 10 years if i am correct in thinking?
Gas Certificate once a year.

Thats all i can think about?

Agreed. I paid special attention to creating a much plainer English version of an AST... there is no "heretofore", "thereafter", "hereunder", "pursuant", "notwithstanding", "insofar" or reference to "paragraph X, sub-section Y" anywhere. 

I also put this following text very prominently at the front of the document and I let the prospective Tenants have it well before the start date... "Tenants should read this Tenancy Agreement carefully to ensure that it contains everything they want and nothing that they are not prepared to agree to. Tenants must always be given the opportunity to thoroughly read and understand this Tenancy Agreement before signing it."

I'm sure you're already covered for Landlord's Insurance... just make sure you read up properly on what you need to do re. the deposit and don't come a cropper further down the line due to not having protected it properly.

EPC is valid for 10 years, yes.

HMRC already aware? Doing self-assessment or PAYE?

Hi,
Yeah you are so right. I have read three different ones now and the number of fancy words is quite funny. So yeah that did make me laugh.
Great comment and I totally agree there.

Yes I am with directline landlord insurance and have been since I had the property.

I have read you have to delcare the deposit within 30 days so i am aware of that one.

yes the robbers do take there cut on it. I do have an accountant so she deals with most of them part. I just tell her how much it makes me. She sorts out the rest of it so that's another thing I dont have to worry about. fhew.
Thanks Hippogriff.

Hi,

Is Direct Line Landlord insurance good for most eventualities? If so, what level of cover is advisable?

Thanks

Glynn

Hi packhorse.

It's just like any other insurance you pick what you want to cover so obviously the more that is involved the higher the price. I have had no claims with them but they have been good so far and actually pretty good rates.

http://www.directlineforbusiness.co.uk/landlord-insurance

Direct line for buildings and contents, British Gas for Boiler and Emergency cover I find is good, although Homeserve is reasonable too.

Hi guys.
I have another random question about this managing.

How do you go about things like References for new tenants and not using an outside firm.
Do you usually contact employers yourself and other landlords??

And have to ask dodgy questions like income?

Tenant Find is the only thing I use a Letting Agent for... this is part of that.

Yeah that's what I thought. But I have done all the hard work for em and found the tenant so its only a case of references.

I am sure some Landlords out there contact the tenants old landlords to ask how they were?

Yes, do it yourself is fine, but as you are not a professional "reference taker" if it all goes to Rats, will you feel you used best endeavors to check out the tenants properly?

This is one of those foresight for hindsight situations, you have to live with your own choice. Personally I am much less likely to rely on formal references than say my mate Hippo, but I don't mention it, for fear it might come back and bite me on the arse.

I just like to see a "PASS" or "Accept" on a piece of paper with a company logo on it. That'll usually do me.

Would it be helpful aswell to get witnesses when you get the tenants to sign the agreement. Having another person on the contract surely would be a benefit if we are managing ourselves.

Cover your own butt so to speak.

You could do if you wanted.

I wouldn't think it matters very much.