UK Landlord Forum / Life

I have just received a letter from our local Police/Council ( I think it's the council using the Police Logo to sound more scary but I'm still taking this seriously) regarding "Antisocial/Illegal activities" at one of my rented houses.

The letter asks me to contact them and I have tried but the given number doesn't answer at a weekend ( I'll try again on Monday )

Does anyone have any advice on the correct way to deal with this, you may remember me asking about returning the tenants deposit to them to help cover arrears and now it seems they can afford not only to pay the rent, and arrears off, but party on with the cash left over..

I do like the tenant, and she has been with me for 6 years now, so I feel obliged to take her side ( subject to learning the reasons for the letter, obviously) and I know a previous tenant had issues with a weird neighbour who scared them into leaving by being aggressive about every sound coming from the house and threatening them in the street, but I feel confident that my new tenant isn't the sort to take bullshit like that and may have retaliated in kind.. none the less I am aware of how these things can have more to them than meets the eye so any advice at this stage would be appreciated..

I haven't talked with the tenant yet either, as I feel inclined to remain as unbiased as possible..

Unbiased = agreed, but I would remain as uninvolved as possible. I find the whole idea that a Landlord can ever be responsible for the behaviour of their Tenants incredulous... as a society, I mean. It perpetuates the notion that Landlords are superior to Tenants, somehow responsible for them, that these Tenants are in their care. This is not the case, and should never be - Tenants are just customers buying a product (house / home) from someone (Landlord) who has that product to sell.

Mazda would not be asked to get involved in a 2-car collision on the M1 that was definitely down to driver error... not even if 1 of the cars was a Mazda, or both cars were. No-one in offoritti would ask a Mazda Executive, or Dealer, to subsequently have a word with the drivers in question and suggest that if they don't become better, more considerate, drivers there'll be consequences.

It's a bonkers-bonkers world... but the Council has gotten involved, now they're involved and you don't want to be on the receiving end of the Council's... wrath? ineptitude? ...I don't know what to call it but it's unlikely to be good (I could be educated after you get in touch with them), but the people who work for our Councils are the lowest calibre people you will ever have the misfortune to come across... yet they have power.

I do not have the same feelings about the Police.

Well, things are a little clearer, but no more attractive..

The local Council have received numerous complaints of anti social and criminal behaviour. These have been found to be realistic and have culminated in a fight between my tenants boyfriend and on e of his associates. The Council office has made reference to alcohol and drug use at the premises. The fight resulted in the boyfriend being removed to custody and he is awaiting trail on numerous charges.

To make it interesting for me the fight also resulted in serious damage to the front door and this now requires replacement.

My Tenancy Agreement ( AGR2U 2nd edition) does state that damage and repair will remain the responsibility of the tenant in this instance. I'm probably not jumping at the chance to buy a new front door until the boyfriend can be relied upon not to repeat the performance... so I've told the tenant that I expect her to have the repairs done.. Another clause relates to the tenant being responsible for the actions of anyone in the property with their permission, and another excludes sharing the property with any person other than the immediate family.
The No Pets thing has gone out of the window too, but let's keep this real for now...

Now, my questions...

The Council "suggested" that I write to the tenant and inform her of my intention to repossess the property if the damage isn't repaired and/or the situation is repeated , but it feels like I'm being asked to Police the property and vet those who have access. On one hand this seems like buck-passing but on the other I'm starting to wonder if it isn't time to draw the tenancy to a close. So if I do decide to do, that what are my best options.

The rent is currently up to date, the damage is, so far, inconvenient but possibly something I can live with if she can ( although I am sure the insurance would disagree..) and I'm feeling like a visit to the property could 
Do I write a stiffly worded note and draw attention to the clauses I feel are infringed, do I go straight for a Section 21 or Section 8..or do I try to be human and understanding at the risk of missing a opportunity to strengthen my hand in any future eviction process..?

Bearing in mind the fact that I recently refunded the deposit to help her out financially it seems I might have shot myself in the foot.. "Told you So" types, take a bow, but I was genuinely trying to be nice, for a change..

Your knowledge, suggestions and soothing words of comfort will be appreciated...

If you decline the Council's "suggestion", what did they say or imply would or might happen?

The Tenant is responsible for their own actions, and those of their guests... that much is common sense. That you, as supplier of a product, are responsible for the actions of another adult Human Being, who is completely unrelated to you, is evidently a nonsense... but don't let that stop the Council from interfering in your business venture or of telling you you are.

All that said... first sign of real trouble and I would get shot via the most effective (if not the most speedy) means... and that would mean a slow and costly Section 21... watch how the Council will then advise her to stay on, dangling by her thumbs, until you go through all of the procedures, paying out this, and that... and then end up sending Bailiffs around... that will grate.

I hear you Hippogriff... so a strongly worded letter asking for prompt rental payment, immediate repairs to the property and absolutely no further repetition of the Anti social/ drug den type drama..? Does this make me seem like the evil landlord, or just the guy who owns the place trying to be reasonable.. and can anything I say in the letter be misrepresented or affect my position in any future litigation..?

Is there a decent template for this or am I free to get creative ..?

As you may be able to tell, after 10 years of renting out two properties, this is a first for me and I am aware of the support a tenant can receive if things are mishandled..it's going to be a long ride I feel..

Apologies, when I said "first sign of real trouble and I would get shot" I meant that you'd already had that... not that it was time to warn against that happening, or else. So what I would be sending across is a Section 21, whenever appropriate... then I'd start again. You may or may not be able to handle that in the pocket... that's up to you... but while people deserve a second chance... isn't your Tenant on her third, or something like that, already?

People don't need to be told "don't break the front door"... y'know? Telling someone feckless that will only antagonise them... "wots this bleepard telling me this fer? i no that!" ...yet it still ended up happening... because people like this seem to continually make bad choices... it's just a pattern.

The only thing I can find in your Tenant's favour is the amount of time she's been your Tenant (one assumes without too much trouble?)... maybe that's what's got you being a softie? Yes, you can get attached to them, but they're not animals... well, some of them are, but certainly not pets.

My point being... (did I forget to make it?)...

A Section 21 will focus the mind more than any creative-writing letter you set pen to paper with this weekend... y'know? If that mind in question is capable of being focused, of course. If it is actually drugged-up itself... Section 21 or amazingly crafted letter, you have little chance.

I remember your first enquiry,and it gives me no pleasure-well only a little bit-to say "I told you so".You are really over sensitive about how your tenant regards you ? Why?
She seems to have no gratitude for the lengths you have already gone to,and is taking you for a mug.Regardless of the council or the police,why would you want tenants like this in your property?

I'd never considered myself overly sensitive until now.. I suppose I was under the impression that some mutual respect could exist between a landlord and a tenant. As for being taken for a mug, the jury's still out and I'm delivering a letter asking for repairs within one month and drawing her attention to the clauses relating to allowing illegal activities and allowing persons other than immediate family to occupy the house. I'll also verbally inform her of the inevitable Section 21 option if we can't get over this decline in the relationship. I doubt it will bring us closer.

Realistically this is probably the beginning of the end, or at least the end of the beginning for a repossession dance. It will grate, and I accept that after 6 years we've both got to go our separate ways and start all over again..

I'll let you know what refunding the deposit did for the concept of respect when I get the keys back...

Thanks for putting words to that little voice I've been hearing for a while now..   

Finally, do I appear to have the sufficient grounds for a 21, and how long is it likely to take if we set the wheels in motion..? Are there any obvious mistakes to avoid in the process and is there any way of speeding the repossession along if that's the road we take..??

Your choice of words worries me.This is the  way people speak when a romantic affair goes sour.I have developed fondness for tenants in the past,and it does shock and hurt when you find you have been used.Old Chinese saying "Fool me once,shame on you.Fool me twice,shame on me". You have tried to behave very decently,way beyond what would be expected of you,and sadly this has been abused.Been there,done that.

Quote from: bloofox on March 05, 2019, 12:40:07 AMFinally, do I appear to have the sufficient grounds for a 21...

What do you mean by this?

Section 21 is a guaranteed, no-justification, no-fault eviction. As long as you've done all of the things you should currently do as a Landlord (EPC, GSC, How To Rent, Deposit) then you're golden and the green light is on...

The longer you wait the more chance this Tenant has of sniffing your plans out and putting obstacles in your way... like raising some kind of spurious disrepair claim that might - hypothetically - end up with some kind of [other] Council involvement and a notice of improvement on you, and then you're barred from serving a Section 21 under the retaliatory eviction rules etc.. I'm not saying it's all applicable to you (because of the length of this tenancy, but don't let the waters get muddied). Don't delay, act today.

A Section 21 landing on the doormat will focus the mind much more than any kindly and well-intentioned letter you might write. It disassociates you from the bond you so clearly yearn for... it's a very blunt, no nonsense notice - "it's time for you to go"... it doesn't mean you have to follow it through if behaviour changes - you can consider it a precautionary Section 21.

Old Chinese saying - "the weakest horse always gets ridden the hardest".

All sounds similar to my recent experience
So/so Tenant for 10 years.....along comes a boyfriend (from hell) with Alsatian .....drugs - foulness- complaints - neighbour probs

Please learn from me ..... I tried to be nice for too long!   Cost a small fortune in solicitors fees.  Lack of 6 months rent and having to gut the place after FINALLY getting rid

Over £12000 wasted!

Don't be nice just be legal and do it QUICKLY ok
Good luck