UK Landlord Forum / Life

It does sound like you've missed the point of the thread?

Quote from: paulaa on January 06, 2016, 10:24:35 PM
I know the rent would be late considering the holidays.

I feel for you.  You're not hard enough and have totally the wrong frame of mind for this and unfortunately seen as a soft touch.  Did the HSBC know my last mortgage payment would be late because of the holidays?  Did the guy I stay with mid week receive his money late because of the holidays? Have my tenants paid late because of the holidays?  The answer is a resounding no.  Only someone who is taking the *iss pays late.  You're acceptance that this would inevitably happen is part of your downfall.

Considering anything for not getting your rent is a road that you don't want to be going down.

As for the comment about the rent being late cause of the holidays. That comment was out lining that we all know the rent cannnot be paid on the 1st cause its a bank holiday so the Monday should of been the day it was paid.

But other than chasing the tenant for the rent which is what I am doing every month.
There is nothing I can do, I have asked for advise on this and the comments are coming back with, there is nothing I can do.

I cannot get him out on a section 21 as he is on a contract till the 1st June 2016.

I cannot get him out on a section 8 cause he messes around for a few weeks and then pays.
As far as I am aware he has to be two months in arrears before I can do anything anyway..

So please advise as to what else I can do to sort this all out. As far as I can see. Nothing, so that is not really being a soft touch.
Between a rock and a hard place more like it.

Thanks though guys for your comments.

There is sympathy here of course. I think you've summed the situation up.

Thank you Hippogriff.

As long as I am not missing something. That was all I was trying to find out.

On another random question.
My AST for future help.
If you sign them in for say 6 months. DOES it automatically go onto a periodic tenancy after the 6 months if another AST isnt produced and signed?

Yes. Unless they've left...

Thanks for that. Thats what I thought.

When June comes and I can get this tenant out I know he is going to be a pain. When he moved in and wanted to stay for a long time he paid towards the carpets in the house.

When he brings that up how do I stand with it.

When June comes and I can get this tenant out

On the basis that you were unfamiliar with a Section 21 notice at the start of this trail I wonder if you have realised what the actual process is for possession?
If he is going to be a pain I would doubt very much he will be out of the house in June...serving and having the section 21 notice expire is the start of a process that can take another 3 months or so and incur some costs..... Steel yourself.

As to the carpets ...moot point if he is in rent arrears.  How did you record the payment? What was the agreement? 99% sure this will not be an issue...if a tenant wants to paint a room they can't take the paint with them nor can they claim recompense for painting it.....same principle but helpful to know what was agreed and recorded.

Best of luck

Yes I am hoping he will go quietly. But I know if he doesnt then I do have a fight on my hands and yet another learning curve I know little about.

Ok I know this carpet thing you are probably all going to call me names over.. so please be gentle.

The carpets he wanted to pay more for to get a better quality carpet. So the carpets that I had picked came too 500 and the carpet he wanted came to 1100. So I paid the 500 and he paid the rest.
He paid for company so the payment will be in his name.
Its probably irrelevant but again I dont want things to come back and bite me on the bottom. Which I am learning they do.   

Quote from: paulaa on January 08, 2016, 12:39:55 PM
So please advise as to what else I can do to sort this all out. As far as I can see. Nothing, so that is not really being a soft touch.
Between a rock and a hard place more like it.

Thanks though guys for your comments.

Not trying to have a go, just saying new tenant needs a new approach.  As Hippo says you've pretty much summed the situation up yourself, sad times.  I love it when tenants talk about their lack of rights and how they are treated etc.  Never easy for a landlord.

You are correct about 6 months ASTs.  Even if there is no written contract the 6 months would still apply.  I'm sure it will be 6 month tenancies from now on.  Keep your chin up, try not to let the T and situation get to you more than it needs to (easy to say) and come here for support.

Thanks Riptide.

It is a learning curve. And I am so thankful for you guys for your help and support it really does mean a lot.

I have been reading all day on landlord things.
Now something has come up you proper landlords might have a comment on.

Right so now on 6 months on the AST.

Then let it go to periodic.

What are your thoughts on the Contractual periodic tenancies

Quote from: paulaa on January 08, 2016, 09:28:39 PM
What are your thoughts on the Contractual periodic tenancies

My thoughts are, as I'm not entirely sure what one is I'll stick to the simple life aka periodic tenancy.  Simple = better to me.

Paulaa
I imagine you are feeling quite raw at the moment so to be clear this isn't a dig but you can do more to help yourself and do some research...
Regarding your question on contractual tenancies the answer is actually on this very website

http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/the-advantages-and-disadvantages-of-periodic-tenancies/

There is a marginal benefit for a contractual periodic tenancy but not huge.

Furthermore...

Do not make your learning curve happen in the 2 weeks before you need to act...you have time now so use it..
Do the research
Become familiar with the eviction process or start finding someone that will take care of it
Start putting the cash aside for this if money is tight
Make sure all you know what docs are needed/ proof of serving s21/how to fill in the possession order forms
Know what court proceedings are (even to where is the court office where you serve papers)
Understand what happens at a hearing and how the tenant can defend himself etc
Even to the point of knowing what documents your insurance company will require if you need to make a claim for damages
How you will claim for the deposit from the TDS..

There is no need to panic but I've seen too many people get to the crunch point and then be totally clueless costing even more time and money....

Best of luck 

Never had to use a section 21 so far, but would like to use Paulaa's example as a case in point, and would be grateful if you seasoned landlords could add some valuable input.

Paulaa says her 12 month contract ends on 1st June of 2016.   However she also says her payment date is the first of the month, so I am inferring that the contract actually expires sometime on 31st May  (1 June 2015 - 31st May 2016).

Assuming that, and also taking into account that a section 21 cannot be served by a landlord earlier than 2 months before the end of an AST;  what is the earliest date that a section 21 can be served? 

Is this 2 calendar months and 1 day (30th March 2016)?  If it is served any later than that does it mean the tenant is entitled to stay until the end of their next rental period?  i.e.,  If the section 21 was served  on say 22nd April - what would be proposed move out date ?

Thanks - I hope this makes sense.

Martha, in response to uor question...

what is the earliest date that a section 21 can be served?

As the agreement in the example must have started before 1st October 2015 then the old rules apply to a section 21 and so a s21 can be validly served at anytime during the fixed period (provided sufficient notice is given), it was common practice for such notice to be served a couple of days into the tenancy.

For new tenancy agreements (maybe more relevant) I could write it all out but there was a reasonaly good article on this website...it is more convoluted now as s21 notices expire and so need to be re-served now.

a section 21 cannot be served by a landlord earlier than 2 months before the end of an AST
that isnt strictly true (unless you are only talking about agreements with 6 months periods(?))

Have a read of:
http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/new-section-21-regulations-2015-landlords-england/

Hope that helps.

yes I am not feeling my best at the moment and have been doing a lot of reading. I have spent the last week or so reading and this site is great but when you look at a page and read it there are so many other documents to open from that one page it gets rather crazy.

I have read that there isnt that many advantages to the contractual periodic tenancy but just wanted peoples views on it.

I have done some research on the s21 and have downloaded some forms to make my own. but yeah it is a case of the unknown and how to do things properly that scares me.
you can do all the research in the world but still might do something that isnt quite legal/right.

A Section 21 is actually quite a simple document in itself (as you'll have found out), I think people are frightened of them because a few things must be correct for it to work out in a Court... the truth is that only a fraction of cases would reach a Court, and most Tenants (obviously not all, right?) will depart when they see the writing on the wall.

What we hear are stories (and there'll be statistics behind this somewhere) about Section 21s getting thrown out by a Court because the date was wrong by a day, or the deposit wasn't protected... but there's only a few things that can throw you... the good thing is that there's still no actual defence to one that a Tenant can create, like disrepair. A Court must award possession if you've a) done everything right and b) got everything right.

Always better if the Tenant departs, meekly or not, without it going to Court.

Hi Paulaa, I have been reading your posts and wondered if you might like another viewpoint? Obviously you have been very understanding and it is always difficult to start over but I would suggest that you have a tenant who is capable of paying, the property is probably in no worse state than if you had anyone else in (plus the costs of your bringing back up to standard and the carpet problem..) so why not go to the property and inform the tenant that you have been very understanding but you cannot continue to accept late payments. So, unless payments are made on the agreed day you will have to hand the everyday dealings over to someone else. Tell him you realise that he wishes to stay long term, that you are more than happy for him to remain providing the terms of the contract are fufilled, which of course include prompt rent payment. Just reiterate that you are running a business and rely on this income yourself.

I personally would insist that a standing order is setup (in all my contracts) and would certainly ask a male friend to call and collect the rent if it was not forthcoming - nothing threatening but a strange male is also a little more likely to concentrate the mind than a known male or female.

I realise my suggestions may not be as 'professional' as some landlords believe, but I have always found if you start out as a friendly, helpful landlord it is sometimes easier to become more distant  without conflict and it is always better to have a tenant than kick one out,with all the stress involved, then repair the place and look again! Good luck

Quote from: Denny on January 12, 2016, 09:00:46 AM...would certainly ask a male friend to call and collect the rent if it was not forthcoming - nothing threatening but a strange male is also a little more likely to concentrate the mind than a known male or female.

I cannot believe I am reading this. This is out-and-out intimidation tactics you are proposing. It's also a sure-fire way of encouraging a complaint of harassment... and a justified one. A strange male - completely unrelated to the property or the agreement - coming around and demanding the rent? Are you frikkin' kidding me? The rozzers will be on the Landlord's case in no time whatsoever.

You advise to be friendly and helpful and then suggest this? You must be insane or have some kind of personality disorder that's possibly undiagnosed.

Harassment is a criminal offence. Please note this advice says - "Call the police on 999 if you are being threatened and are in immediate danger." - I expect you wouldn't want that?

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/harassment_and_illegal_eviction_by_landlord/harassment_by_a_landlord

I realise you admit your suggestions are not "as professional" but I sincerely hope you aren't doing this kind of thing as well. 

Quote from: theangrylandlord on January 09, 2016, 11:45:46 AM
Martha, in response to uor question...

what is the earliest date that a section 21 can be served?

As the agreement in the example must have started before 1st October 2015 then the old rules apply to a section 21 and so a s21 can be validly served at anytime during the fixed period (provided sufficient notice is given), it was common practice for such notice to be served a couple of days into the tenancy.

For new tenancy agreements (maybe more relevant) I could write it all out but there was a reasonaly good article on this website...it is more convoluted now as s21 notices expire and so need to be re-served now.

a section 21 cannot be served by a landlord earlier than 2 months before the end of an AST
that isnt strictly true (unless you are only talking about agreements with 6 months periods(?))

Have a read of:
http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/new-section-21-regulations-2015-landlords-england/

Hope that helps.

Thank you ALL.  I think that link raises more questions than it answers :-(

Oh Hippogriff you are a laugh a minute aren't you?! What gave you the impression I was suggesting scare tactics - I think from reading your many posts that you are maybe ascribing your own rather twisted beliefs onto my post. I would certainly never use intimidation, it just appears to me that if Paulaa cannot get anywhere with the tenant then a different face would maybe work better, as a stranger would not be a known quantity and the 'I am a poor person that has hit on hard times' approach that this particular tenant seems to be using would be useless.
Harassment is a non starter in my book, as I suspect you realised and if you didn't then you should have from my other posts. I believe in helping, not insulting people.
I have been in this business for many years and do not look down upon my tenants or, thankfully, feel the need to be arrogant and high minded to those new landlords when they have a problem or take digs at others who try to help.

Frankly, your 'advice' is dangerous. Hopefully other, intelligent, people will see this for themselves. Best for you to get down the pub and have conversations like this over a pint I think.

The key thing with difficulties with tenants is to document everything and follow the correct procedures at all times! You don't want to do something that is breaching their legal rights so you are the one to pay.

I found this article really helpful when it comes to managing problems with tenants, maybe it can help you for future reference.

http://www.gnbsoftware.co.uk/blog/managing-difficulties-with-tenants/

Thanks again for the continued advice and comments on this one.

An update on things. The same has happened this month. he has been late at paying but he has at least paid today. So that is something but I do think the relationship is a bit less happy now after all this.

Another question. As you all know I am done a lot of reading and have been trying to find out more and more about all this. Has anyone got any advice on the best books or websites or places to go to get information about landlord issue.
Preferably in easy speak and not lawyer speak.

I have read a lot on here but was wondering if anyone one has found anything else that is good.
thanks in advance.

Quote from: paulaa on January 14, 2016, 09:21:37 PM
Thanks again for the continued advice and comments on this one.

An update on things. The same has happened this month. he has been late at paying but he has at least paid today. So that is something but I do think the relationship is a bit less happy now after all this.

Another question. As you all know I am done a lot of reading and have been trying to find out more and more about all this. Has anyone got any advice on the best books or websites or places to go to get information about landlord issue.
Preferably in easy speak and not lawyer speak.

I have read a lot on here but was wondering if anyone one has found anything else that is good.
thanks in advance.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/

maybe join an association?  Fees are deductible.

Yep tried that one.
Funny you say that as I went to a PIN meeting last week to network...

Landlords, by nature, are loners, swimming against the tide. We don't need associations.