UK Landlord Forum / Life

Hi everyone !
I recently let my London flat out to a couple. As I am a new landlord, I made sure I did everything by the book, obtained all necessary certificates etc - so should be no problems with that.

Before renting it out, I used to live in the flat for nearly 2 years myself. As it was owner occupied before, the flat was in pretty good condition as it had undegone major refurbishment a couple of year ago, plus  furnished with John Lewis furniture and blinds.  The flat was squeaky clean when I handed in the keys!

I used to have a cat in the property, which tenants knew about (the cat was in the property) when they came to view the flat and decided to take up the rent.

However, a couple of weeks after moving in, I received a list of "issues" from them, which I was quite astonished about, in particular:

1) the tenant seems to be allergic to the traces of cat hair and wants me to pay for the professional cleaning of blinds and the sofa (which are both only over a year old and in pretty good condition otherwise, with no stains or marks on them)

2) the flat has central heating throughout, but half of the radiators cannot be turned off when you put the heating on. The tenant complaints that this would increase their heating bill as does not give them an option to turn off the radiators they want and want these radiators to be replaced.

I have been living in rental properties for quite a few years myself before I bought my own place. Maybe I was a very low maintenance tenant, but I would have never thought of complaining about stuff like that myself and find their demands unfair.

Firstly, they knew there was a cat in the property before they decided to take it up, so I don't think it should be my problem that they are allergic. Secondly, all radiators are certainly not new but work pretty well apart from the switch off function. The tenancy agreement is only 6 months, and I really don't want to invest in their demands considering they probably would move out in Summer.

I should also mention that the monthly rent is a bit cheaper than the market price in the area, purely because I was keen to find good, reliable tenants and have a choice.

I would appreciate your comments on the issue if you had a similar experience.

I think the phrase "Jog on" should be employed.

Tell them its all been cleaned and they must be reacting to something else, and the central heating will not work without these permanently on radiators, they are a safety feature to stop the boiler overheating, or so you were told, and that you cant put thermostats on these, as it would void your safety certificate.

If you submit to this, you are in for a bad time.

Offer to remove the sofa, if they want to get a new one.......

Boboff - thanks a lot for your reply! It's just proves what I was told by someone who rents out a house for a while that however careful you are choosing tenants - you never know what are in for until they move in!

Fob them off for a wee while. They soon won't need the heating on. As Boboff says don't cave into their demands.  If they are still annoying serve them notice as soon as you can. If you're slightly below market value as you say then you won't have a problem replacing them.

My tenants asked me to take my shoes off when I went round the other day.  Made me smile that they care that much.

Quote from: Riptide on March 06, 2014, 07:57:17 PM
Fob them off for a wee while. They soon won't need the heating on. As Boboff says don't cave into their demands.  If they are still annoying serve them notice as soon as you can. If you're slightly below market value as you say then you won't have a problem replacing them.

My tenants asked me to take my shoes off when I went round the other day.  Made me smile that they care that much.

Thanks Riptide! As I'm quite new landlord, I'm just nervous if the tenants can use it as an excuse not to pay rent or anything like that. Although, they are both professionals so hope they have enough to lose

Those radiators sound dodgy to me.
Doest the flat have a central thermostat?
Do they have any controls at all?

I'd point out that the flat was properly cleaned when they moved in,
but that it's not reasonable to think that it was cleaned to hyper-allergenic standards,
and that they knew that a cat was there.
The blinds and sofa aren't likely to be the only places that have traces of of cat.

As the rental is below market level, I think that I'd suggest that if they're not able to live there in comfort,
due to an allergy, you'd be happy to end the rental earlier if that want.
They're entitled to stay if they want, but you wouldn't want them to suffer.

Quote from: jpkeates on March 07, 2014, 12:26:53 PM
Those radiators sound dodgy to me.
Doest the flat have a central thermostat?
Do they have any controls at all?

I'd point out that the flat was properly cleaned when they moved in,
but that it's not reasonable to think that it was cleaned to hyper-allergenic standards,
and that they knew that a cat was there.
The blinds and sofa aren't likely to be the only places that have traces of of cat.

As the rental is below market level, I think that I'd suggest that if they're not able to live there in comfort,
due to an allergy, you'd be happy to end the rental earlier if that want.
They're entitled to stay if they want, but you wouldn't want them to suffer.

Well, the radiators are just quite old but functioning properly apart from the fact that you cannot turn them on or off in individual rooms. All heating system as well as the boiler were checked by a gas engeneer when we decided to rent the flat out. The engineer commented that radiators are quite old and could be changed in future, but pointed out that there is nothing wrong with them and there is no NEED to change anything now.

You just turn ALL radiators on or off on a boiler thermostat, or set them to run on a timer.

It is quite a small two bedroom flat, so I doubt that turning off a couple of radiaators would make a massive difference to their gas bill.

I thought if I keep on getting pressure from the tenants, I would just offer to release them from the contract with 1 month notice as long as they are happy to leave.

If you do end up terminating the contract you need to do it properly.

As all landlords are evil grasping bastards and tenants are gullible lambs who need constant protection,
it's important to get things straight as pretty much everything you do tends to look illegal or frowned on.

You wouldn't want to find yourself explaining to a judge why tenants with a valid lease agreement signed by you
aren't living in the property without an equally legal piece of paper signed by the tenants under no duress of any kind
agreeing to end the previous agreement.

If it were me, I'd spend some money with a solicitor and make sure its done properly.
It's very difficult to open the dialogue without sounding as if you're trying to evict them for being annoying,
or without it being capable of being seen that way.

Quote from: jpkeates on March 07, 2014, 02:18:20 PM
If you do end up terminating the contract you need to do it properly.

As all landlords are evil grasping bastards and tenants are gullible lambs who need constant protection,
it's important to get things straight as pretty much everything you do tends to look illegal or frowned on.

You wouldn't want to find yourself explaining to a judge why tenants with a valid lease agreement signed by you
aren't living in the property without an equally legal piece of paper signed by the tenants under no duress of any kind
agreeing to end the previous agreement.

If it were me, I'd spend some money with a solicitor and make sure its done properly.
It's very difficult to open the dialogue without sounding as if you're trying to evict them for being annoying,
or without it being capable of being seen that way.

thanks for your advise! I will definitely look for a property solicitor to draw up an early contract termination agreement if it comes to it!

I think maybe part of the problem is that my tenants are quite new to the UK and expect a different standard of property altogether.

Having been a tenant myself for many years and having experienced different landlords and estate agents, I wholeheartedly think that they would not find many flats in the UK which would adhere to their standards unless they are prepared to pay considerably more, and even then I am not sure!

Apart from the "issues" I mentioned, there were other "problems" they came back to me with, like if they wanted to change a shower curtain and other very small things which I would not bother the landlord with personally. 

A few things in your posts made me ponder whether a good sit-down with the Tenants, where you explain to them what a Landlord's responsibilities / obligations actually are, might be useful. It might not be what they want to hear, but it might help set their expectations and the matter could be then resolved.

Of course, it could go the other way and they remain unsatisfied... in that case, you can either sit tight and end the tenancy when the fixed term expires, or - as you say - potentially offer them the chance to leave early (this might be what they're now wanting anyway, you never know).

At the moment, there might just be a gap of understanding. If they are "Tenants from hell", though, then getting new Tenants in as soon as is possible will probably be much better for your mental health.

It is not acceptable / legal for Tenants to withhold rent on this basis. I read that there has been no mention of this, you were just a bit concerned about it. Hopefully that remains the case.

You mention other small things they came to you with... personally, I prefer Tenants to write to me (quick email) with any suggestions of things they may wish to do themselves - and I can agree, also formally, to protect both sides. This is mostly useful with things like decorating... "can I paint the bedroom walls in nuclear orange gloss?" - "no, sorry" - "can I paint the living room in matt magnolia?" - "yes"... but if other things were being changed / removed / replaced, then I would want that recording somehow. So if they wrote to you enquiring about changing a shower curtain (without more detail one might assume they intended to buy a new one themselves and throw the other one - your one - away) then I would appreciate their contact. Just my view. Being a Landlord can't be completely "hands off".

Yes, I guess the tenants asking permission to change even small things may be not a bad thing actually..

I was thinking, if I offer to pay for professional cleaning of blinds and sofa but make it clear to them that I would expect them to pay for the same cleaning service on a check out, that would be only fair?

Would it be difficult to force them pay for the same level of cleaning providing I kept a receipt and all correspondence with them re that matter?

Ah Mr Potter, I see you have finished making that Back Rod, well done.

Quote from: 143 on March 10, 2014, 11:53:14 AM
I was thinking, if I offer to pay for professional cleaning of blinds and sofa

Admitting there's a problem and paying to sort it out aswell.  I see caving into demands leading to more demands.

Quote from: 143 on March 10, 2014, 11:53:14 AMI was thinking, if I offer to pay for professional cleaning of blinds and sofa but make it clear to them that I would expect them to pay for the same cleaning service on a check out, that would be only fair?

Fair, maybe... but if you do have the demanding Tenants from hell, then expect more of the same kinds of request in the future. I can't bring myself to advise you to go this route, after all, you did say the flat was "squeaky clean" when they started their tenancy. I think it is a better route to stand firm, ensuring the Tenants know what is and isn't your responsibility and re-stating that they took the flat as seen under their own cognisance, but always being polite and respectful of your customers.  Hope it works out well for you.

They'll be asking you to pay for someone to clean 'your' windows next. 

Thanks for your advice guys! Will hold off and see what happens next. Yeah, easily see them demanding to clean the windows given the pattern of their requests so far!

Really hope it will settle peacefully.