UK Landlord Forum / Life

New Landlord here- about 1 and a bit years of fairly quiet renting, However:

I have let an agent manage the let completely. For some reason i didn't feel confident to approach the tenants or see how they were getting on etc and was worried that they would hassle me endlessly for stuff- my fear that is....
I now realise that allowing them to arrange maintenance is costing an absolute fortune. So-

1  I still have warranty on a brand new boiler I had put in last year and need to get the info from the house

2 i would like to check the name and type of oven that has recently been put in last week

3 I am now compiling a list of contractors that I can use instead of going thought the agent

I would like to pop round when convenient and collect the boiler info I left in the kitchen drawer - if still there!!
and collect oven info. Also, a phone number so that i can ring them about any maintenance visit arrangements and so forth.

OR should I do this via the agent??? I don't want to do this if possible ....
I would rather go and have a visit/chat with them

What i am saying is -
Is it ok to ring them and pop round when convenient basically??

Of course it is but how are you going to phone them when you want to get a contact number for them?

Of course it is OK to contact your Tenants. It is not OK to turn up when convenient for just you... if convenient for both then, of course, it's fine... why wouldn't it ever be? The issue you have is that you have deliberately interposed an Agent between you and your Tenant - the Agent is you, the Agent is employed by you and acts in your stead. The Tenant could very easily be confused if it's not clear what the communication path is - and Agents don't usually like to relinquish what they perceive as a control point. Even if they do nothing and even if they're inept they like to maintain their control points.

Are you wishing to prepare the way to take on full management yourself? If you are going to deal with the tenants regarding repairs etc.you may as well go the whole hog,and save yourself a lot of money.You will probably find some penalties are payable,check your contract.
If this is just about having control over tradesmen,I don't see why you can't just get the agents to collect the info you need,and make it plain in writing that all repair complaints are referred to you by the agent.When you choose the contractor,they can collect and return keys via the agent,and the latter will have to arrange access.They may be a bit arsy  about losing their nice bit of commission,but really don't worry about them,they can take it. 

heavykarma and Hippogriff - great replies , thank you very much indeed.

At this stage I would like to take charge of the contractor stuff. I really want to get on top of this now.

The agent always ring me to ask what i want to do if jobs come up.
I'm pretty sure it's fine to use contractors selected by me.
1 was thinking of getting the phone number and give that to the contractor so they could organise a time to visit - would that work?

I need to get that info about the boiler that I left at the house, so I need to visit and get that. I have rung the plumber who installed it all - it has 7 more years of warranty left! He also said it was fine to use him if I need domestic stuff done.
Also found an electrician.

another issue-
The tenant has had installed outside above grond floor window a sky dish.I haven't been asked or given any permission.
I don't want to be liable for damp or issues arising from having this done. Do I declare that to the agent?

Again many thanks
scalar

I am listening to what you are telling us.

You want to take control of things, but you want to hand it over to someone else immediately? You do say this... so it confuses me. This is probably why you had an Agent... as the single point of contact. Believe it or not some Tenants like that... they think the Agent is on their side - when nothing could be further from the truth. They perceive their relationship with their Landlord as an adversarial one.

You can't really stop someone from installing a Sky dish... it's like a Human Right or something. You keep trying that (absolving yourself from any theoretical issues that might arise from it being done - look around, please, there are Sky dishes everywhere!) and you'll have no Tenants. You probably need to get a little bit of perspective. It could help you in the long run.

You seem like you're quite high maintenance... and not in the maintenance sense. No insult... just a bit of a flapper, maybe? Take a deep breath. This stuff isn't logistically hard - but you are going to do it better if you have a clear plan. Either you are main point of contact or you are not - not a mix of you, Agent and various Handymen and Plumbers and Electricians. The Tenant might as well own their own home! Haha.

BTW - the boiler warranty will only be valid if it's Serviced every year - and that doesn't mean a GSC... it is more. And costs more. But only slightly if you get it done at the time of the GSC. If the boiler does not have a Service record please be prepared for any warranty claim to be given short shrift.

Quote from: scalar on November 20, 2017, 10:48:49 AMI need to get that info about the boiler that I left at the house...

This is why I say take a deep breath. You should be arranging simple checklists for yourself. It's OK, you're not an expert. I leave nothing paper in the house... all of the manuals and certificates etc. are placed on my website and they're given the  URL - they can access any manual they need. They do get to keep a copy of the GSC but I also scan that and put it up there. That URL is their one-stop-shop for anything relating to the tenancy. I also do comprehensive Check-Ins... never shorter than 1 hour... where I go through everything. If they're paying attention I never get calls about how such-and-such works.

If they're not paying attention I might.

If they're imbeciles I probably will.

A tenancy really does benefit from some initial well-thought-out setup work.

Hippogriff

Yes I am  a worrit!!

The agent has levels of service - as you know- at the moment am fully managed but finding out how it is not completely working for me. I can't just cancel that as the tenency agreement is renewed for another year from Oct this year.
I could ring them and try to go a rung lower and for them to collect rent and sort agreement out. I am terrified of being open to non- rental payment - that's another issue......

I would like the maintenance to go through me and the tenants to contact me. In the agreement it says the tenant can contact either.
I felt really ripped off with the oven thing recently. It was a colossal charge. Last year, the maintenance jobs seemed reasonably priced but have a new person organising this now.

So, I would like to just be contacted re the maintenance stuff at the moment. Later I would like to go fully without agents.

I will need to check the boiler had a service last year - it's only 1 year old...

Many thanks
scalar

Hippogriff

Sounds brlilliant!     I think the recent oven thing has made me realize I need to get my act together and not rely on the agent.

Stage 1 - go and get the boiler manual
stage 2- tenants to understand to ring me for maintenance work

thanks very much
scalar

Hippogriff-' they think the Agent is on their side - when nothing could be further from the truth. They perceive their relationship with their Landlord as an adversarial one'.

I am starting to see this now.
i am also starting to go through the resources you have here.

Mantythanks again,
Scalar

Hi

Have organised brief meeting with tenant soon.
How do I handle requests and demands that I am not sure of? Do i write it down and say 'I will get back to you on that' or something.


cheers scalar

Quote from: scalar on November 22, 2017, 02:11:34 PMHow do I handle requests and demands that I am not sure of? Do i write it down and say 'I will get back to you on that' or something.

This is going to sound arsey... in a way, it's mean to... as I'm going to ask you - how do you live your life? You must deal with people on a day-to-day basis, right? You're not some kind of recluse or hermit, are you? If you are, then I think starting-out with some less trying interactions would be better suited to you. If you aren't a recluse, then you must already know how to deal with people who may not necessarily see eye-to-eye with you... life isn't plain-sailing all the way, right?

Tenant: I want a gold-plated shower head!
Landlord: Why do you think that's necessary?
Tenant: I don't, I just want it.. I demand my gold-plated shower head! I know my rights... don't try to oppress me!
Landlord: Why gold-plated, though? Why don't we get you a solid gold one?
Tenant: Alright then.

If that happens, please come back to us... we can help (with suppliers).

Thanks Hippogriff.

I  take on board your reply and understand your complete frustration...

I am simply finding out where the boundaries are without coming across to the tenant as a b'stard.

This is the first experience of Landlording for me. The house had an enormous amount of work before i let it. New concrete floors/new carpets/brand new boiler/brand new bathroom/kitchen refurbed/garden tidied/new fence/electrics all new/new windows........i could go on. The year before the outside was completely renovated - new soffts/facias/rendering on the front/all weather painted/hammeron paint on metal stuff /chimney repaired/felting and new tiles on roof where needed.

So I thought hey, everything would be fine and the new tenants really be happy when they arrived. My own vanity I suppose.
Not so- they asked -can i paint inside? can I put shelves up?/can i drill holes and put pictures up? can i look after my mum's cat for 1 month every year when she goes away? -after knowing i don't want pets. Now these things sound quite positive - having someone who could paint etc, but I had read 'never let tenants repaint' .
Also, it had just been decorated throughout., can my dadsmoke when he visits- knowing it was a no smoking agreement.

I felt they were pushing it a bit but wasn't sure- this is the crux. I have not been through this before.

It's like teaching 30 kids in a class, at first it's terrifying, after you learn the ropes, much, much easier. It's learning the strategies and having some experience. You learn that you are in charge not the kids, believe me that's something new teachers struggle with!

My mistake i know- the agent thought these tenants had excellent references and would be good, i trusted them and they seem to be as they pay every month on time and have calmed right down with their requests. In fact,  I had to get the agent -who were supposed to be fully managed-to tell them that if they don't like it then I am happy for them to go if they wished. They didn't want to. They have stopped their clamour now.

So, for me I wasn't sure what seemingly little things i could say no to.

In fact, reading through some of the excellent info on here, I will definitely show round all my next prospective tenants and make my own decisions.
I will also take much, much more control of the whole thing.
That is where I went wrong. To assume the agent would 'manage' the whole thing. They haven't and I realise I don't want them to now.....

I am learning and getting more confident.

Thanks for all the replies- really helpful.

Also.I was possibly naive to think that the agent would lead on these things, be able to advise. In fact, I don't think they knew the answers either. The young girl that dealt with me, although very pleasant to deal with,  didn't really know any more than I did. I thought they could show me, lead the way. I was largely wrong.

cheers

scalar

It takes:

  - no qualifications
  - no training
  - no experience

For someone to set themselves up as a Letting Agent (or Estate Agent). The industry seems to attract people who thrive on that. Why do you think they have such a bad reputation? It's not only because they have gotten away with charging an arm and a leg for years for little to nothing in return... it's also because they're mostly inept.

Tenants are just people.

Some are reasonable. Some aren't. You learn how to assess this - usually - at viewings (which, of course, you didn't do)... but you will in future. At the start nothing is too much trouble. However, the relationship dynamic is often a strange one... it's like people start to resent paying for a roof over their head... they think that what they agreed to at the beginning entitles them to more later on... more effort, improvements, whatever... it's a strange thing. Maybe this is why so many tenancies only last on average 18 months? After a certain amount of time the two parties tire of each other.

Even though all Landlords would claim that their nirvana for them is long-term Tenants. And even though most Tenants would say they would prefer to not up and move on every couple of years.

What you need to understand is simply flexibility - you can give some, and you can take some. Hard and fast rules like "no painting ever" can come and bite you. I let people paint if they ask for permission and we obtain agreement that it won't be navy blue gloss on the ceiling or suchlike and that if I require it then it will be put back to the original colour at the end of the tenancy (I've never asked for this)... most people can do an OK job at painting a wall. If they can't you ensure you have already agreed that it will be done professionally at their cost.

It can be a fractious and adversarial relationship.

Take everything as it comes and if you want to ask us about specific requests... "should I let my Tenants keep a cat 1 month of the year?"... ask away - you might not get a definitive answer, but you'll certainly get views that can help colour your thinking.

My point to you was this... Tenants are just people - you deal with them and their requests like you do other similar situations in everyday life.

My Tenants asked for a property to have a) a new bathroom and b) new windows. They want a new bathroom because of aesthetics (peach, 90s) not functionality or disrepair. They want new windows because they mistakenly thought they weren't double-glazed, of course they are. I agreed to a £25 per month rent increase and I would stump up the outlay for 1 of those things in 2017 - they chose the bathroom. It's just talking things through with people... I explained to them that they only pay me £7,500 rent per year, which is taxed, so how can they expect me to pay out much the same amount on bathroom and windows? They understood. It's just maths. It's not personal. At the end of the day you want your property to be in good condition and cared for... so doing things is not a bad thing.

Exactly.

Flexibilty is the thing of course.
Also the more you are in control of the renting then the more you feel able to be flexible etc. That was the issue for me- having an agent. I wasn't sure of what I could do or not do....
It's like the kids at school, most like 'firm but fair treatment' , some are always well behaved, some need much more input to get them on board.
Humans innit?

cheers
scalar

I always like to remember... the Tenants are my customers. That should drive most decisions, I think. I have a bit of a laugh every now and again and Landlords are prone to end up treating Tenants like children or, worse, pets... but it's all wrong. They're paying you good money for a service. As long as you're making a good profit then it's a sound business relationship. If you are spending out some money to improve the condition, saleability, attractiveness of your asset... well, think how lucky you are... and how different that is to most suppliers. If your current Tenant wants an X installing then you know that the property having an X makes it more desirable... it being more desirable surely makes it more valuable. It being more valuable means you can either charge more rent to this Tenant... or, certainly, to the next.