UK Landlord Forum / Life

I have reason to believe a new tenant is subletting my property.

A person entered the property (high rise with concierge) with the keys/fob and entered details to say they were in the property, gave landlord as my tenant and said they were staying for a month. Covered with my tenant who just said it was a family member staying for a week.

For certain reasons, I double-checked landlord of "previous" accommodation who has confirmed that tenant has not served notice, even though they told me they had. So possibly still living there.

I cannot serve notice as I don't have solid evidence, but does anyone with experience have advice as to how to negotiate this challenge?

Thank you upfront

I'd wait a week or so and then arrange to inspect the property to check everythings OK - routine check for a new tenancy.
And see who answers the door.

Quote from: jpkeates on August 28, 2024, 09:36:29 AMI'd wait a week or so and then arrange to inspect the property to check everythings OK - routine check for a new tenancy.
And see who answers the door.

Thanks for the advice, I definitely intend on doing this and keeping this up periodically until I'm convinced otherwise. If this is the case, hopefully the minimum 24 hour notice isn't enough time for evidence to be hidden.

Quote from: rossily123! on August 27, 2024, 05:25:11 PMI cannot serve notice as I don't have solid evidence, but does anyone with experience have advice as to how to negotiate this challenge?

Thank you upfront

It would be solid enough for me. Can you not serve a s21 "no fault" notice?

Quote from: DPT on August 31, 2024, 11:15:08 AM

Quote from: rossily123! on August 27, 2024, 05:25:11 PMI cannot serve notice as I don't have solid evidence, but does anyone with experience have advice as to how to negotiate this challenge?

Thank you upfront

It would be solid enough for me. Can you not serve a s21 "no fault" notice?

I could but that would involve a lengthy notice period and appearing in court which I ideally want to avoid.

But what's the alternative?

Quote from: jpkeates on September 01, 2024, 02:55:08 PMBut what's the alternative?

Serving RHW23 for breach of contract due to sub-letting.

Quote from: rossily123! on September 01, 2024, 06:44:02 PMServing RHW23

At what point did you mention vital information that your property is in Wales?

Quote from: rossily123! on September 01, 2024, 06:44:02 PMServing RHW23 for breach of contract due to sub-letting.

Which will involve "a lengthy notice period and appearing in court". So that's not an "alternative" and you say you've already ruled that out. Hence my question.

I think you already know what your choices are: You're wrong and it's all been a misunderstanding, you're right and you decide to accept the situation or you serve notice and go through the courts.

Agree with JPK.  Have you spoken to the tenant directly to remind them politely that sub- letting is not permitted?   

Quote from: HandyMan on September 01, 2024, 08:51:56 PM

Quote from: rossily123! on September 01, 2024, 06:44:02 PMServing RHW23

At what point did you mention vital information that your property is in Wales?

I didnt think to mention, apologies

Quote from: jpkeates on September 02, 2024, 05:19:22 AM

Quote from: rossily123! on September 01, 2024, 06:44:02 PMServing RHW23 for breach of contract due to sub-letting.

Which will involve "a lengthy notice period and appearing in court". So that's not an "alternative" and you say you've already ruled that out. Hence my question.

I think you already know what your choices are: You're wrong and it's all been a misunderstanding, you're right and you decide to accept the situation or you serve notice and go through the courts.

I think it involves a somewhat reduced notice period, if based on evidential proof that sub-letting is occurring.

Quote from: heavykarma on September 02, 2024, 08:05:10 AMAgree with JPK.  Have you spoken to the tenant directly to remind them politely that sub- letting is not permitted? 

I have, they are denying it at the moment hence why I will establish what is going on through inspection.

I have it on good grounds that they are still in contract with their previous accommodation, so this is illuminating.

I'd talk to a solicitor. The law's more complex in Wales and in England, and I'm less familiar with it, but, as far as I know the basic situation is the same. If the tenant isn't living there, and letting it to someone else, it's not just a breach of their tenancy agreement, it's not a residential tenancy for your tenant. It's a different type of tenancy entirely.

So the basic situation isn't simple - the notices you want to use apply to residential tenancies.

Quote from: jpkeates on September 02, 2024, 04:01:46 PMI'd talk to a solicitor. The law's more complex in Wales and in England, and I'm less familiar with it, but, as far as I know the basic situation is the same. If the tenant isn't living there, and letting it to someone else, it's not just a breach of their tenancy agreement, it's not a residential tenancy for your tenant. It's a different type of tenancy entirely.

So the basic situation isn't simple - the notices you want to use apply to residential tenancies.

Thanks for the suggestion. I've already talked to a solicitor but they fobbed me off by saying that without evidence I would be laughed out of court - frankly it made me feel stupid, maybe I could speak to a more personable solicitor...

What a stupid thing to say (the solicitor, not you!).

You have evidence already. The tenant isn't there; someone else is, and they're still resident elsewhere. That's not bad. At least, it should cause the court to ask for equal evidence from the tenant. These cases are decided on the balance of probability - one story is more likely to be accurate than the other.

I'd have thought that your main problem with the breach of the tenancy agreement is whether the breach is sufficiently severe to mean someone loses their home (even if it's not the tenant) or whether the judge believes that the arrangement is somehow temporary.

Do a credit check (via Tenant Referencing) on the person you have a Tenancy with at the alleged previous accommodation and your own, or just use 192.com to check their voters roll status at both addresses.

Voters Roll registrations are being sent out at the moment, (not sure about Wales), so if they update their voters roll status to their old address then you have more evidence that their primary residence is not your place.

If you have the name of the new person you can do some rudimentary checks on them, see how visible they are and follow where the public data leads you.

I would accidentally bump into the sub Tenant and ask to have a chat, the fact that they say they are staying for a short period suggests they are aware they should not be there.  Still you can ask them what the situation is, such as why are you staying here?  Where is Bill?

Paying £3 for the Title Deed of the "previous" property might enable you to track down the Landlord of that property and seek a Tenant Reference (you only just got around to them), if you can't find them on social media, drop them a line and leave your phone number in case they have any queries. 

There is nothing actually wrong with someone having two properties, e.g. one close to work, my concern would be whether a property is used to grow certain illegal plants or used for certain immoral activities, but the building does not sound ideal for that.

Also if the person named on the AST travels a lot they may be simply complying with your AST agreement term that says they need to take care of the property if away for 28 days etc.

Of course speaking to neighbours can be helpful, do they have any concerns, is there any antisocial behaviour, have they noticed anything unusual.

Inspections might reveal pets, but some Tenants will refuse inspections and they are pretty hard to enforce without an emergency and even then the Tenant can insist that only bona fide contractors can come in, e.g. Gas Safe Registered. 

Quote from: rossily123! on September 02, 2024, 03:17:41 PMI have it on good grounds that they are still in contract with their previous accommodation, so this is illuminating.

Update:

I've found evidence of a rental company registered at my property and confirmed it has come from the tenant. So I will be serving notice very soon - having given the tenant time to rectify and remove the registration (mostly to benefit my case to show I've been fair), which the tenant has not taken advantage of.

Any other advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

You should gather any evidence you have, like details of the person entering the property. Talk directly to your tenant about your concerns and check your lease for subletting rules. If necessary, consult a lawyer for advice on how to proceed.