UK Landlord Forum / Life

I was due to have a tenant move in today. She is DSS. Deposit for the house was £400, the same deposit as her last place. I text last week asking if she's set to move in on Sunday and she was asking if she could move in any earlier because she has the money. I declined because the tenancy agreement said the 1st and there was a couple of odd jobs to do still.

So yesterday 8.30am I get a text saying she only has £300 and that she doesn't get paid until next Thursday. I text her back saying I need it in full before I let her in. She then texts back saying she will have the £400. I said ok, see you tomorrow. Later in the day she rings saying she was going to get the extra £100 from her Mum but she doesn't have it now, asking if it's ok to move in on Thursday when she will have it.

I said yes but I feel very uncomfortable about it now especially as I knew I was taking a risk having a DSS tenant in the first place. She had the money and she's spent it on something, she's not had this money for the last year so she has shown she's been able to live without it so I doubt whatever it was, was that important-having a roof over your head is pretty high on Maslow's hierachy of needs.

What would you do in this situation?

It is high on the needs list but when it's free it diminishes the value somewhat. 

Is the rent fully covered by the money that she receives or does she have to top up aswell?

You've been put on very clear notice as to what kind of Tenant this will be. Just be thankful you found out before the tenancy started. If you can cancel it now and go no further, all the better for you. If you want to get into charity work and spend the next year (or longer) chasing the rent and listening to a variety of different (sometimes wild and interesting - it amazes me how many people have their mobile phones stolen more than once) excuses as to why it's late or short... go for it.

Quote from: Riptide on February 01, 2015, 05:20:26 PM
It is high on the needs list but when it's free it diminishes the value somewhat. 

Is the rent fully covered by the money that she receives or does she have to top up aswell?

She will be topping up £30

Quote from: Hippogriff on February 01, 2015, 07:05:38 PM
You've been put on very clear notice as to what kind of Tenant this will be. Just be thankful you found out before the tenancy started. If you can cancel it now and go no further, all the better for you. If you want to get into charity work and spend the next year (or longer) chasing the rent and listening to a variety of different (sometimes wild and interesting - it amazes me how many people have their mobile phones stolen more than once) excuses as to why it's late or short... go for it.

Government will be paying me directly, would you still hold the same view?

I'm also desperate to get a tenant, I am a student relying on family + bursary, it's a big struggle having a mortgage on top

Has the government paid you directly yet? Have you actually got any money yet? I doubt it. What about Universal Credit? That states that Landlords will not be paid direct. When it arrives in your area, things might change. The Tenant has already proven they cannot handle their 'own' money.

A desperate Landlord and a prospective LHA Tenant already playing silly-buggers? Recipe for disaster.

Quote from: Ellis Rimmer on February 01, 2015, 10:06:20 PM
I'm also desperate to get a tenant, I am a student relying on family + bursary, it's a big struggle having a mortgage on top

However expensive it seems having the place empty now, it doesn't compare to when you have a bad tenant.  There is nothing more expensive than a bad tenant.

Quote from: Hippogriff on February 02, 2015, 10:22:21 AM
Has the government paid you directly yet? Have you actually got any money yet? I doubt it. What about Universal Credit? That states that Landlords will not be paid direct. When it arrives in your area, things might change. The Tenant has already proven they cannot handle their 'own' money.

A desperate Landlord and a prospective LHA Tenant already playing silly-buggers? Recipe for disaster.

No I haven't been paid yet-i'm very worried now. I would also feel bad about telling her she can't move in when she's left her last place already

Quote from: Ellis Rimmer on February 02, 2015, 01:25:11 PM
No I haven't been paid yet-i'm very worried now.

I would also feel bad about telling her she can't move in when she's left her last place already

Unfortunately it's your call.  Be worried and give your asset to someone or tell the they can't move in. 

How long is the tenancy agreement for, it better not be more than 6 months.

Make sure you follow correct deposit procedure including signed and dated PI aswell, way before 30 days from taking it.

It could all work out fine. It's just not starting well. As third parties we are just pointing this out to you so you have that other perspective. I know what I'd do, but you may do something completely different.

Quote from: Riptide on February 02, 2015, 02:41:02 PM

Quote from: Ellis Rimmer on February 02, 2015, 01:25:11 PM
No I haven't been paid yet-i'm very worried now.

I would also feel bad about telling her she can't move in when she's left her last place already

Unfortunately it's your call.  Be worried and give your asset to someone or tell the they can't move in. 

How long is the tenancy agreement for, it better not be more than 6 months.

Make sure you follow correct deposit procedure including signed and dated PI aswell, way before 30 days from taking it.

I put a year, but as she didn't move in on the 1st I guess I should send her a new one out anyway, and amend it to 6 months?

I know about the tenancy deposit, i'll be straight on that

Quote from: Hippogriff on February 02, 2015, 03:23:14 PM
It could all work out fine. It's just not starting well. As third parties we are just pointing this out to you so you have that other perspective. I know what I'd do, but you may do something completely different.

I know, I am very grateful for the advice

Quote from: Ellis Rimmer on February 02, 2015, 05:28:13 PM

I put a year, but as she didn't move in on the 1st I guess I should send her a new one out anyway, and amend it to 6 months?

I know about the tenancy deposit, i'll be straight on that

GOOD GOD YES - Do not give a year AST out!!!!!!!  Do you know the process of evicting people?

When you say you know about the deposit, you know about the PI aswell as it's very very very important.

Quote from: Riptide on February 02, 2015, 06:23:11 PM

Quote from: Ellis Rimmer on February 02, 2015, 05:28:13 PM

I put a year, but as she didn't move in on the 1st I guess I should send her a new one out anyway, and amend it to 6 months?

I know about the tenancy deposit, i'll be straight on that

GOOD GOD YES - Do not give a year AST out!!!!!!!  Do you know the process of evicting people?

When you say you know about the deposit, you know about the PI aswell as it's very very very important.

No I do not know the process-difficult?

PI?

Quote from: Ellis Rimmer on February 02, 2015, 06:27:46 PM

Quote from: Riptide on February 02, 2015, 06:23:11 PM

Quote from: Ellis Rimmer on February 02, 2015, 05:28:13 PM

I put a year, but as she didn't move in on the 1st I guess I should send her a new one out anyway, and amend it to 6 months?

I know about the tenancy deposit, i'll be straight on that

GOOD GOD YES - Do not give a year AST out!!!!!!!  Do you know the process of evicting people?

When you say you know about the deposit, you know about the PI aswell as it's very very very important.

No I do not know the process-difficult?

PI?

Come on.  You need to get serious about this.  You're about to give your asset over to a complete stranger.

You need to know how to get tenants in, what your legal obligations are inbetween and how to get them out if you need to.  You need to know more about letting a house out than the tenants you are letting to.  If you don't you are on a very expensive hiding to nothing and it doesn't sound like you've got the capacity to absorb this.

Do you have a at least 8 page inventory and condition report for a completely empty house that's ready for the T's to confirm and sign?
PI is the prescribed information you must give to the T's after securing their deposit.  Look on the whichever scheme you are using for this info.
You need to read up about how to serve notices and get the tenants out if you need to.

It feels like you're walking into this, desperate to let, giving the house to the first person you can and it's a recipe for disaster.  Do you have a contingency of money if the T decides not to pay from month 2 on for example?

Quote from: Riptide on February 02, 2015, 06:44:24 PM

Quote from: Ellis Rimmer on February 02, 2015, 06:27:46 PM

Quote from: Riptide on February 02, 2015, 06:23:11 PM

Quote from: Ellis Rimmer on February 02, 2015, 05:28:13 PM

I put a year, but as she didn't move in on the 1st I guess I should send her a new one out anyway, and amend it to 6 months?

I know about the tenancy deposit, i'll be straight on that

GOOD GOD YES - Do not give a year AST out!!!!!!!  Do you know the process of evicting people?

When you say you know about the deposit, you know about the PI aswell as it's very very very important.

No I do not know the process-difficult?

PI?

Come on.  You need to get serious about this.  You're about to give your asset over to a complete stranger.

You need to know how to get tenants in, what your legal obligations are inbetween and how to get them out if you need to.  You need to know more about letting a house out than the tenants you are letting to.  If you don't you are on a very expensive hiding to nothing and it doesn't sound like you've got the capacity to absorb this.

Do you have a at least 8 page inventory and condition report for a completely empty house that's ready for the T's to confirm and sign?
PI is the prescribed information you must give to the T's after securing their deposit.  Look on the whichever scheme you are using for this info.
You need to read up about how to serve notices and get the tenants out if you need to.

It feels like you're walking into this, desperate to let, giving the house to the first person you can and it's a recipe for disaster.  Do you have a contingency of money if the T decides not to pay from month 2 on for example?

As far as I know i've done everything I am expected to do thus far, obviously I am taking a risk with the tenant but to be fair, in the area the house is in I am not expecting much different from the person I have lined up. I have a reference from her previous landlord which is stellar. I don't have a contingency no, but what can I do, somebody has to go in. If I give her a 6 month tenancy agreement and I decided I didn't want her there at the end how difficult can the process be to get her out?

Through Facebook snooping I have established this girl went out drinking this weekend

Go to WH Smiths or amazon or ebay or wherever and buy a book called "The complete guide to residential letting by Tessa Shepperson, and read it cover to cover. Or alternatively read all the articles on this web site rather smartish.

I know you have thus far but, thus far you haven't handed over your asset to a complete stranger.  You need to see the complete picture, the whole circle.  You have to be in control at the start to have at least a little control throughout and at the end.

All the info you need is on the main site.  There is a good 3 hours reading there that covers pretty much every aspect of letting a house out.  http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/landlord-guides/

I don't know why you think I have read that? I understand the process, I am now trying to judge whether I trust a person or not, and of course I am in full control

Quote from: Ellis Rimmer on February 02, 2015, 08:17:32 PM
I don't know why you think I have read that? I understand the process, I am now trying to judge whether I trust a person or not, and of course I am in full control

Have or haven't?  If it's haven't then I've jumped to that assumption because you've offered a 1 year AST, didn't know what PI is and don't know of the various routes to getting your property back if you have to.

Quote from: Ellis Rimmer on February 02, 2015, 07:12:57 PM...how difficult can the process be to get her out?

This comment betrays quite a bit. I've seen some right horror stories. You would not want to be trying to evict someone, them refusing to pay rent, trashing your place, getting advice from the Council that tells them to stay there until the Bailiffs arrive, you having to pay money to the Court and money to enforce the possession order... finally, you get them out, but you need to spend thousands on getting the house into a lettable condition again, you're down on, say, 6 months of rent and you've no-one to chase because the Tenant has no money (spent at the weekend, drinking) or assets.

Just be careful. Don't be desperate.

Quote from: Riptide on February 02, 2015, 08:21:53 PM

Quote from: Ellis Rimmer on February 02, 2015, 08:17:32 PM
I don't know why you think I have read that? I understand the process, I am now trying to judge whether I trust a person or not, and of course I am in full control

Have or haven't?  If it's haven't then I've jumped to that assumption because you've offered a 1 year AST, didn't know what PI is and don't know of the various routes to getting your property back if you have to.

I have! with due respect, I appreciate your advice but I am not a numpty-I am just inexperienced, you are informed about PI when you make a deposit so I've hardly missed much there I wouldn't expect any less than to have to give them some literature about their tenancy deposit. I am aware of section 8+21, that you may have to go to court etc. I just need to make a call on the girl. I understand you wouldn't let her in-but the predicament I have now is that she has left her previous place and has a child and I will feel guilty about not letting her in because I am presuming I will have problems with her. She satisfied me before what happened at the weekend, but what happened is ridiculous, so not my fault if I don't let her in now.  On the counter unless she dupes me I will be getting the rent directly from the council so would potentially only leave me £30 a month if I have problems-having said this when speaking to the council they have not gave me assurances that this will definitely be paid directly to me. Hmmm

You've made me feel bad for trying to help and give you a heads up. 

I hope you have a very enjoyable land lording experience.

I'm out.

My one LHA-receiving Tenant gives me more trouble / hassle than the other Tenants combined. LHA is currently paid direct, so it is the top-up I need to chase each and evey month, but I dread what will happen when Universal Credit comes in. When I need to visit, I find myself wondering why I have to chase for my rent but there is loads of expensive Lego strewn around the house (not that she is untidy, it's just being played with). Where other Tenants, at least, appear to pay their rent as a priority, the LHA Tenant seems to pay it if she had money left over... which never happens. Your prospective Tenant probably put aside £100 of your rent to have a good time and celebrate her new mark... you!

I might come across somewhat negatively. I don't want you on here in 6 months asking for help as you served a Section 21 which had been ignored.

Quote from: Hippogriff on February 02, 2015, 08:29:09 PM

Quote from: Ellis Rimmer on February 02, 2015, 07:12:57 PM...how difficult can the process be to get her out?

This comment betrays quite a bit. I've seen some right horror stories. You would not want to be trying to evict someone, them refusing to pay rent, trashing your place, getting advice from the Council that tells them to stay there until the Bailiffs arrive, you having to pay money to the Court and money to enforce the possession order... finally, you get them out, but you need to spend thousands on getting the house into a lettable condition again, you're down on, say, 6 months of rent and you've no-one to chase because the Tenant has no money (spent at the weekend, drinking) or assets.

Just be careful. Don't be desperate.

Is the section 21 a difficult process if they don't play ball. It seems a simpler process reading about it, how can they make it difficult? can they just refuse to leave and ends up being a court matter?

Quote from: Riptide on February 02, 2015, 09:01:47 PM
You've made me feel bad for trying to help and give you a heads up. 

I hope you have a very enjoyable land lording experience.

I'm out.

I didn't intend to make you feel bad, I understand you don't pull any punches in your advice and I thought you were getting the wrong impression about me. Thanks for your advice, honestly I have taken it all on board and i'd hate you to think I was being ungrateful so sorry

Yes, they can just refuse to leave. The Council will also advise them not to leave. You will need to swallow extra costs in that scenario and expend extra time and effort.

You realise, I hope, that we understand any Landlord can get into trouble with a Tenant who 'turns bad' some way into a tenancy? What we are concerned about is that all the warning signs are there for you now! You have a Tenant who is trying it on, trying to move in without paying what is owed, going out on the lash with what you suspect is your rent and, basically, taking the Mick... you're rightly nervous. You may just need the strength to look after your own best interests.

Quote from: Hippogriff on February 02, 2015, 09:09:40 PM
My one LHA-receiving Tenant gives me more trouble / hassle than the other Tenants combined. LHA is currently paid direct, so it is the top-up I need to chase each and evey month, but I dread what will happen when Universal Credit comes in. When I need to visit, I find myself wondering why I have to chase for my rent but there is loads of expensive Lego strewn around the house (not that she is untidy, it's just being played with). Where other Tenants, at least, appear to pay their rent as a priority, the LHA Tenant seems to pay it if she had money left over... which never happens. Your prospective Tenant probably put aside £100 of your rent to have a good time and celebrate her new mark... you!

I might come across somewhat negatively. I don't want you on here in 6 months asking for help as you served a Section 21 which had been ignored.

No it's very helpful advice, I think you two are right and I need to put myself first and tell her that i'm not going to let her the house. I'm not even in the same area so I can imagine what a headache it'll be trying to chase rent up over the phone.

Quote from: Hippogriff on February 02, 2015, 09:21:22 PM
You realise, I hope, that we understand any Landlord can get into trouble with a Tenant who 'turns bad' some way into a tenancy? What we are concerned about is that all the warning signs are there for you now! You have a Tenant who is trying it on, trying to move in without paying what is owed, going out on the lash with what you suspect is your rent and, basically, taking the Mick... you're rightly nervous. You may just need the strength to look after your own best interests.

You're right, it's just me I come across like i'm arguing back when I am really playing Devil's advocate, the warning signs are there I am just desperate to get somebody in but I guess I will just have to wait a bit longer! I'll give you all peace for the night now my mind is made up. Thank you both

Oh sorry one last question, I am right in thinking that as i've not accepted any deposit yet that she doesn't have any rights to live in the property? Just as she did get sent a tenancy agreement